Marcus’ NCE DCC for Everyone. More DCC stuff at my Main North HOME
Topics in blue are web pages and won’t print in DCC for Novices.
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Lights & Resistors |
Wiring & General. |
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Track Wiring This is covered in both books on DCC and Allan Gartners Wiring for DCC |
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LEDs Connecting to decoder. |
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Sound Decoders. |
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Programming. |
Reset & change Address of QSI |
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General instructs & programming |
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Speakers and mounting |
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CV 1 - The Short Address CV |
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CV 7 & 8 Decoder make & vers. |
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CV 17 & 18 Long Address CVs. |
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Decoder Pro. |
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Consisting. |
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Consisting with Back EMF |
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Installing Decoders & Gen info. |
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Great DCC sites, Groups etc. |
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Decoder types/sizes |
NCE Specific Information. |
Marcus NSW Main North in DCC |
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System. |
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Choosing a DCC system. |
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Intro NCE & DCC @ Tonys |
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Selecting Functions on NCE |
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Details of 2004 EPROM Upgrade |
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Motor Control |
Mar 2007 EPROM details |
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Clubs/Associations of Australia |
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Cabs/Throttles. |
Australian Model Railway Mag. |
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Australian Model Railway Assoc |
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NMRA Australian Region. |
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Pro Cab Software Version No. |
Printing DCC for Novices. |
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NCE Radio |
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DCC is for Everyone.
During Oct 06, there was discussion on the NCE DCC Yahoo Group requesting a book along the lines of the xxx for Dummies series of books and asked if there could be a DCC for Dummies or a similarly titled book to address issues that a newbie or novice DCC user would have, that don't understand all sorts of things electrical etc and the jargon that sometimes is necessary to solve some of the new issues.
I thought the user manuals that came with systems and all the components, answered so many of the questions asked. On the 15 or so model railroad Yahoo groups that I belong to, there are many questions that repeat themselves due to the steady growth in new members. All these groups just get bigger as people see and reap the benefits of sound and DCC on their ever growing model railroad empires that provide a much more satisfying operating experience. Model trains is now MUCH more fun.
Later in the month (Oct 06), I had a very comfortable, non pain 5 day hospital stay that caused me to miss the NMRA Convention here in Sydney Australia. I took my laptop and decided to put together DCC for Novices that I hope will help a few modellers. Something I would not have done if I was at home. Being a one fingered typist and of average comprehension ability (I should have been more serious at high school all those years ago in the 60s), what I get onto these pages may not be grammatically correct and free flowing, hopefully will have the technical content, necessary to answer any questions asked.
I purchased my NCE DCC radio system in Feb 03 after using a local DC Command control. I am still learning about my NCE DCC system and I dont use all the features of this great DCC system that just continues to get better, if that's possible. NCE releases Command Station Upgrades regularly, that provide enhancements to the system eg the great new 2004 Consisting method of double ended loco addressing etc and fixes to any bugs that get past the beta testers that become evident due to many modellers demanding operating experiences and Jim Scorse's relentless desire to make it the best DCC system. Thanks Jim and the team at NCE.
Thanks to Mark Gurries, Rex Beistle, Don Vollrath, Mark Schutzer, Den Lippert and others, for all the great informative replies on the NCE Yahoo Group list, that answer so many of the questions. I am staggered at their input and I am always learning.
DCC for Novices is aimed mainly at NCE users, as I know a little about the NCE system but nothing about the others. I can see how hard it would be to write a DCC for Dummies type of book for all the systems, because many of the questions asked are system specific. Systems are being enhanced with more features and better ways of doing things (look at the way Consisting is done now). A requirement for a continually updated book would be impossible. There are many general topics for all. Now I am committed to the web book, Ill have to update it along the way.
If anyone has a question, that the answer would be valuable to others, please let me know and I will include it in these pages.
Hope you enjoy DCC for Novices and hopefully it answers some of your queries.
Its for ALL existing DC layouts and layouts of any size, not just for new and large layouts. Now is the time to connect DCC, its much easier now. Just connect DCC and have so much more fun.
With the availability of RTR DCC locos complete with sound and cheaper DCC Entry Levels systems, it has never been easier and cheaper to install DCC on any layout. All those stories you've heard about re-wiring the layout and modifying points/turnouts may not happen on your own layout. Just get DCC connected and see what ACTUALLY happens.
Imagine how an owner of an existing DC layout that operates free of any major problem, would feel, when told by us DCCers, or what he reads in the DCC books, sees on the chat groups, that if their wiring was smaller than 12 14 AWG, they would need to rewire their layouts. Not many DC layouts are wired with anything this size. Also to have trouble free operation at points/turnouts, all these should be made DCC Friendly. Any interest these DC owners had in DCC would soon disappear. They would feel that DCC is a big joke. They would rightly say Ill be happy with DC if that's what it takes to have DCC. They would be robbed of all the benefits of DCC.
While I thoroughly agree with using thicker wire, so that the system can sense a short, this depends on the size of the layout, the length of the Power Busses and the DCC system used.
The effect of global shutdowns of the layout when there is a short at the points/turnouts should be assessed for EACH layout and can only be done AFTER DCC has been connected. You may only have the occasional short that may be very tolerable. Modifying all your installed points/turnouts for this, is plainly too much effort for only a small gain and certainly not necessary before you connect DCC. Anyway any problems found, you can fix them later at a time that is suitable and convenient to yourself, in the meantime you're reaping the benefits and having fun with DCC.
See below how to easily connect DCC.
What is DCC.
Digital Command Control is where a decoder (receiver) with its own unique address, is installed in every loco, between the locos pick ups and the motor, to tell it how to operate. The address, speed, direction etc, of a loco, is selected on the throttle and is combined with power from the system and sent to all sections of the layout. Only the loco with the address match will move while all the others, remain stationary.
To achieve this level of independent control, does require extra expense and in a lot of cases effort (installing decoders), but the benefits of operating a layout with DCC, will soon be realised.
A simple analogy is: In DCC you control your loco/train and in DC you control your layout.
The extra level of realism that DCC provides, is in every ones reach now, with the availability of many reasonably priced RTR DCC locos (fitted with a decoder), many with sound and cheaper entry level DCC systems. Wiring up a DCC layout is easier than DC, no need for any electrical blocks in many situations and DCC can be installed on any existing operating DC layout, see below how to.
As a DC owner/operator, would you like any of these features when operating your trains on your personal or club layout?
- Individual loco control?
- Operation more typical of the prototype?
- No block controls and no more who's got my train?
- Easier wiring?
- Better motor performance by tuning your locos?
- Walk around capability?
- Sound in your existing locos?
- Lights effects that can be selected off/dim/on and at a constant intensity and on even when the loco is stationary?
- Do you want to operate trains and not your layout?
If you answer yes to a few of these, then DCC is for you. The benefit that each modeller gets from DCC will vary, depending on the:
- Type of layout he has shunting/operations or mainline running.
- Size of layout.
- How he operates it from one central point or walk around.
- What effects he wants out his locos lights, sounds etc.
- The amount of locos operated.
DCC is not for everyone. Some model railroaders are happy watching trains go around the layout and dont consider operation as a part of the running session. What someone sees as a priority, others may not? It is all about choice.
There are hardly any choices with DC but DCC has many.
I have mentioned some of the benefits of DCC, and YES they do come at a cost. These include:
- Purchasing a DCC system starting from $100.
- Purchasing decoders for each operating loco depending on type, non sound or sound.
- Increased price of a RTR loco with the addition of sound or a chip.
- Time and effort to fit decoders to each loco.
- Yes I can hear you say, Ill have to fit decoders to all of the 200 plus locos that I own- thats going to cost me heaps.
- Dont think of it like that. How many of those do you operate now? Fit decoders into your popular ones first.
Talking about installing decoders in all your locos, I operate a medium sized walk around layout (approx 30 x 30) with 25 locos. So now how many do you have to chip? Fitting decoders to locos is so much easier now. The size of decoders is getting much smaller, more features and cheaper. A small HO decoder is the size of your thumb nail. How easy will this be to fit?
Manufacturers are now providing locos that make it all that easier to go DCC, when purchasing new models. They are:
DCC Ready locos that have all the loco wiring terminated (for HO) with a NMRA 8 pin socket that makes installing a decoder really easy. Another benefit, there is room for the decoder and this is important if the loco is manufactured with a large weight and many are these days.
DCC Equipped locos that come with a decoder already fitted and ready to run. There are manufacturers making RTR sound locos, for example Broadway Limited in the U.S. and Eureka Models in Australia. These locos are the best. When the installation of the decoder and/or sound is done by manufacturer, it is so much cheaper. In my Eureka Models AD60 Garratt, supplied with sound, it cost extra A$90. This is a lot less than the Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder and speaker that I would have to purchase (A$165) and I did not have to spend hours, fitting it and grinding some weight out to find room for the chip and speaker.
Once you have operated on a DCC layout, you will find the restrictions in DC, hard to put up with.
Playing trains is only a part of this wonderful hobby. Some modellers spend a great deal of their hobby hours building beautifully detailed models, while others make wonderful scenery etc. There still is only 24 hours in a day. DCC is NOT the only way to control a layout, but it has been said, In DCC you operate your loco, whereas in DC you operate your layout.
Things have changed since I went DCC, nearly 5 years ago.
These things have changed and will make a huge difference in going DCC. Now is the Time. The below list items, will make you DCC adventure cheaper, easier and above all, more fun especially the availability of RTR sound locos and sound decoders.
· DCC systems have become cheaper.
· Many manufacturers offer entry level systems. NCEs Power Cab can be purchased for US$139.95.
· Decoders are cheaper, smaller in size for easier installation and offer more features and function outputs.
· Decoder current determination uses slipping current instead of Stall current, enabling Z scale decoders in HO locos.
· These small 1 Amp decoders like the NCE Z14SR and the TCS M1 can be located between steam locos driving wheels, allowing separation of tender and loco for better handling and easy installation. Good for club operators.
· Locos of the latest designs (last 15 to 20 years) only need about 200 300 mAs of current. Many much less than this.
· Manufacturers are producing DCC RTR locos.
· Many are available with sound. Sound provides a whole new dimension to your layout.
· The availability of these RTR, means users that feel they don't have skills to fit decoders, now can have DCC.
There are four excellent DCC books available from hobby shops and the Internet. The first 3 published by Kalmbach Books.
- DCC Made Easy by Lionel Strang.
- DCC Projects and Applications by Mike Polsgrove Model Railroader DCC Corner fame.
- The DCC Guide by Don Fiehmann
- Digital Command Control A comprehensive guide to DCC by Stan Ames, Rutger Friberg and Ed Loizeaux.
Any of these books are suitable and certainly worthwhile for new entrants into the DCC. These books explain what DCC is about, in not too technical terms. Included are descriptions of the DCC systems components including: Command Stations, booster, throttles etc, how to wire up a layout, how to install a decoder etc.
The latest (late 2007), The DCC Guide by Don Fiehmann is thoroughly recommended.
Digital Command Control was written by members of the NMRA DCC Working group that implanted certain Standards and Recommended Practices R.Ps. that are necessary for the continued success of DCC. What these Standards & RPs gives us, is commonality at the rails. In essence, this allows ANY DCC system to control ANY brand of DCC decoder.
Connecting DCC to existing working DC layouts no need to rewire the layout or modify your points/turnouts.
While writing some new pages for DCC for Novices, I thought about two recent converts to DCC that I know about. Both of these model railroaders, along with many others, have operating well established older DC layouts with wiring that is nowhere near the standard that is promoted and recommended by all, including me, for DCC. This recommendation is NOT for the actual running of trains (a loco draws 100- 300 mAs) but because a 5 Amp short on all sections of the layout has to be sensed by the Power Pros booster, to remove power from the short.
The catalyst for both of these modellers going to DCC was the introduction of a sound loco (a 620/720 or an AD60 QSI equipped model of our local NSW Australian prototype) on their DC layouts. They soon realised that sound brings a whole new dimension to their layouts. Their interest in the hobby has been rekindled and they are having fun, more than ever before, just like a kid with a new toy. Now they wanted sound for their existing favourite DC locos. One of the modellers, I fitted Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders to two of his C36 4-6-0s. He wants more sound. They were bitten big time by the Sound Bug. After operating the Tsunami, they both asked, how hard would it be to connect DCC to their layouts, to get the most of the Tsunamis and QSIs.
Connect an Entry Level DCC system like NCE's US$140 Power Cab to the layout, by switching all the mainline blocks to one Cab, say Cab 1, disconnect Cab 1 from the layout and connect the Power Cabs track connections to the Cab 1s layouts side connections, taking less than 30 minutes.
The Power Cabs current capacity of approximately 1.5 Amps, will operate 2 to 3 sound locos at the same time. Enough power for a single operator home DC layout with the capability for a second operator using any of NCEs standard throttles.
No layout re-wiring and making their points/turnouts, DCC Friendly.
It is that easy.
See below for using a 5 Amp Power Pro system.
Re-wiring, DCC Friendly Points/Turnouts and DCC for existing DC layout.
This topic is about helping existing DC owners to convert their layouts to DCC, so they can enjoy the benefits of DCC with the minimum amount of fuss. This is possible if we don't scare modellers off and explain the options.
There has been plenty of discussion about these two topics. For building a layout from scratch for DCC, yes wiring with the correct gauge wire is essential. Making your points/turnouts DCC Friendly prior to installation is recommended.
For an existing DC layout, providing this, may be impossible or at best, very difficult to achieve.
Imagine how an owner of an existing DC layout that operates fault free to their standards, would feel, when told by us DCCers, or read in all the DCC books, that if their wiring was smaller than 12 14 AWG, they would need to rewire their layouts. Not many DC layouts are wired with anything this size. Also to have trouble free operation at points/turnouts, all these should be made DCC Friendly. Any interest these DC owners had in DCC would soon disappear. They would feel that DCC is a big joke. They would rightly say Ill be happy with DC if that's what it takes to have DCC. They would be robbed of all the benefits of DCC.
I will try to explain, you can make going to DCC easy or as hard as you like.
- The easy way, just connect DCC and operate less than 30 minutes and this will work for almost all existing DC layouts.
- The hard way, re-wire your layout and rip out all of your points/turnouts and make them DCC Friendly. It may not be necessary.
Why is it suggested to re-wire a layout?
In DCC a 5 Amp booster supplies the current to operate ALL the locos/trains on the whole layout, where as in DC, the DC Cab only supplies the current for one train approximately 1.0 Amp. A short on any layout creates heat and the current has to interrupted to reduce the chance of any damage. A short in DCC with a 5 Amp system will create approximately 60 watts and in DC approximately 15 to 20 watts. For obvious reasons in DCC with this much heat, it is paramount that the booster can sense a short.
The requirement of heavier gauge wiring on DCC layouts is not so much to run trains, but so a booster can sense the short. Thinner wire has higher resistance value (ohms) per foot than thick wire. Depending on the size of the layout and the gauge of the wire used, the resistance of the wiring may prevent the booster from tripping and removing the power to a short. A short left un-noticed may cause serious damage.
What should an existing layout owner do?
Most shorts on a layout happen at the points/turnouts and many are caused by running into an incorrectly set point/turnout. This is operator error. The benefit of making your points/turnouts DCC Friendly will vary, with each layout. Shorts at these same points/turnouts happened in DC, but in a lot of cases, went un-noticed or the loco had a slight hesitation. Depending on how many shorts will be sensed in DCC will depend on types of wheels being used (may be plastic), if wheel sets are in gauge, the track alignment etc. These shorts may be tolerable for one or two operators.
My recommendation is connect DCC and see what happens. You never know until you try your layout with DCC. You might have two or three shorts for a whole session. Does this warrant all the effort required to make your points/turnouts, DCC Friendly.
For the re-wiring issue, your layout wiring may be ok. A 1.0 to 2.0 Entry Level system like NCE's Power Cab works slightly different than the 5 Amp Power Pro.
My recommendation, connect the system of your choice to the layout, but for a 5 Amp Power Pro prior to operating any trains, carry out the Coin Test by placing a coin or a metal object across the track on ALL sections of the layout and if the booster cuts out then all is ok.
If the booster doesn't cut out, wire up the Power Pro with an 1156 in series with one track feeder as shown below. This will restrict the current to approximately 2.0 Amps but the booster will never shutdown the layout. A strategically placed 1156 will provide a great visual indication of a short that will attract someone's attention.
Understanding the issues will have you enjoying the benefits of operating your layout in DCC in less than half an hour. Addressing any problem now can be done at your leisure and you never know, they may not create the hassle that was perceived, prior to connecting the layout to DCC.
Many thanks to Joe Fugate the DCC 1156 pioneer, for showing us how to use the trusty old incandescent lamp to solve a high tech problem. Its not the first time in DCC that an old lamp saved a new issue.
See other topics in DCC for Novices to help you in your DCC experience.
Look for these features when choosing a DCC system
Listed below are 10 of the most important features I have found, when using my NCE DCC. See how many of these are found in the other DCC systems. Your level of priority will be determined by the way you operate and the type of layout you have. You may not understand what these features are, but many DCC users agree that a lot of these feature are important to them, also.
- An entry level option that provides nearly all the features of its more expensive 5 Amp big brother.
- For clubs, when they have a NCE Power Pro setup. Each member would need to purchase a throttle. Purchasing the Power Cab entry level system that at the club performs as a throttle and at home, as a complete DCC system.
- 4 digit addressing that is so much easier to remember the loco number, the one on the side of the locos cab.
- Easy to set up consisting and double ended addressing, by using the loco number, not some two digit number.
- Easy two button presses momentum programming that allows easy changes from main line running to switching.
- Programming on the Main POM that the can be done ANYWHERE on he layout with the supplied full featured throttle.
- A throttle that is not part of a control panel and will provide 15 feet of walk around capability out of the box.
- An easy to upgrade system with plenty of options and supports radio control
- A computer interface option to operate programs like Decoder Pro.
- Total flexibility.
The throttle is your interface to your trains, so the most important criteria when selecting a DCC system, what does the throttle feel like to you and how do you find using the throttle Try these tasks on your short list of DCC systems throttles. Compare the ease of doing the below operating tasks:
- Select and run a train.
- Set up operate then kill, a consist.
- Address a consist.
- Do some programming.
- Try POM programming. Once used this will be your preferred method of programming.
- Operate whistles/horns, lights etc.
Dont make you decision on price alone. The cost of the DCC system, is only a part of the DCC experience.
One of the first terms you will hear when someone talks about DCC is programming. Not to be confused with programming a computer that many don't want to do or understand anything about, programming in DCC is just adjusting the decoder, to fine tune the motor performance, selecting a particular light effect, changing the address, configuring the system etc.
Do not be put off by this term programming.
All decoders and RTR DCC locos come from the factory with default values for every CV. This includes CV 1, the Short Address set at 3 and CV 29 set so the decoder responds to the Short Address. A decoder/loco can be operated on 3 without any need of programming, just select 3 on the throttle and the loco runs.
To get independent control, you have to program the decoder/loco with a new address, mostly the road number on the side of the cab. The system manual clearly explains how to do this and the Power Cab/Procab prompts you all the way a really easy procedure. For many, this is all the programming that needs to be done forever. Operating a loco with this absolute minimum of programming will provide more than satisfactory motor performance, making programming a NON issue with DCC. Programming can be as simple or as complicated as the user wants it to be.
After a short period of time operating your new DCC system, the black magic of DCC will no longer be an issue and you will see that you can fine tune your locos, something that could not be done in DC, by programming. Now programming will be an asset, instead of something that is feared about with DCC.
Decoder Configuration Variables CVs for short.
At the heart of each decoder is a microcontroller that deciphers information from the DCC track voltage to control the locos motor, lights etc (outputs). The performance of the motor, the desired lighting effect etc, can be modified, by what is called programming the decoders Configuration Variables CVs for short.
For example in most decoders, the lag of the loco to move off at start up, as soon as the throttle is turned, can be reduced or eliminated by programming CV 2 with a higher value. Similarly a locos top speed can be reduced by programming CV 5 with a lower value. Many parameters of the microcontroller can be programmed that gives the user the ability to fine tune the motor performance, selecting a particular lighting effect etc, making for a better performing loco.
Configuration Variables for all decoders are grouped in the following categories:
- Mandatory. These CVs must be implemented in order to conform to the NMRA's Recommended Practice (RPs).
- Recommended. These are strongly encouraged but not mandatory.
- Optional. These are at the manufacturer's discretion.
See the NMRA Standards page for the CV lists. Not all current CVs are listed, as decoder manufacturers are always adding their individual CVs to control their particular features.
To comply with the minimum NMRA Standard, all decoders must have the Mandatory CVs that are CV 1 the Short Address, CV 3 and CV 4 the momentum CVs and CV 29 the configuration CV. This minimum standard makes it possible that ALL decoders can be operated by ANY DCC system commonality at the track.
The basic CVs are discussed below.
CV 1 - the Short Address CV.
If your locos have loco numbers in the range 1 to 127, in most cases you would use CV 1 to store this address. Addresses 128 to 9999 are stored in CVs 17 and 18.
All decoders and RTR locos out of the box will have their default values for all CV including CV 1. This is 3 and a decoder/loco can only be addressed by using short address 3. If you are using long addresses on your loco roster, leave CV 1 at 3. This will leave the maximum amount of short address available for other locos and consists.
Note: The Short Address is typed 3 not 03 or 003 or 0003 For NCE, placing a 0 in front of a 1 or 2 digit number 1-127, makes it a long address.
CV 7 and CV 8 - the decoder manufacturer and version CVs Essential for Advanced Programming.
These two CVs are hardly needed. They cannot be changed, but gives us some valuable details of the decoder.
CV 7 - Version. This displays the software version that is installed in the decoder. Use this to look up a decoder manual.
CV 8 Manufacturer ID. This displays the manufacturers Identification number. The NMRA list here will correlate the number to the manufacturer. This along with CV 7 the version number, allows identification of a decoder. Especially useful when trying to identify a loco that will allow you to visit the manufactures web site and download the applicable manual.
For example, for an NCE shown in CV 8 (Manufacturer ID of 11) decoder with software version 3.3 displayed as 33 in CV 7, it does not have Torque Compensation (CVs 116 and 117), whereas version 35 of the later decoders, does. So no point trying to set CV 116 and 117, to fine tune the motor control in a version 33.
Fine tuning the motor, setting the Light Effects of the decoders outputs and Function Mapping CANNOT be done, without referring to the manual. All manufacturers use different CVs to control these features. There is no point guessing.
CVs 17 and 18 the Long Address CVs.
Since decoders can have an address between 1 and 9999. Addresses in the range of 128 to 9999 have to be stored in two CVs.
- CV 17 for the High Byte of the 4 digit address.
- CV 18 for the Low Byte of the 4 digit address.
For example when using the programming the address options of 1 = ADR for POM or 1 = STD for the Program Track the system will program the required value automatically. For example for an address of 4836 the system will program CV 17 with 210 and CV 18 with 228.
There is what I consider a complicated method of working out the values of CV 17 and 18 for a particular address that can lead to mistakes that I have seen on the Yahoo groups in programming a loco that resulted in the loco not moving after programming. In the event that you need to find out the values of CV 17 and 18, program the desired address into a loco using the above methods and then reading CV 17 and 18 on the Program Track using 2 = CV option. Alternatively use this CV 17 & 18 Calculator
Programming the long address of QSI locos using POM may be unsuccessful and if you try to read CVs on the Program Track you may get the CANNOT READ CV message. See the topic on Programming the locos address and what does CANNOT READ CV message mean?
CV29 The Configuration Variable CV CFG
This is one of the most important CVs in the decoder. This is where you set up what you want the decoder to do and which address to respond to.
At the 3 = CFG option you will be prompted for:
- The Direction Normal or Reverse. Note this is the electronic way of reversing the direction of the motor if the loco goes in the wrong direction, after the decoder has been installed and it is too hard to reverse the motor leads. If the decoders read value is an even number, add 1, if the value is an odd number, then subtract 1.
- Analogue (DC) on or off. NCE and many other decoders DO NOT operate correctly on DC unless the DC is PURE DC. That is without any form of pulse control. This rules out most DC controllers. To prevent runaways that happen on some layouts, setting DC to OFF, reduces the chance of runaways. I suggest you always set DC to OFF in CV 29.
- Whether to use internal or external speed tables. Internal speed table are made with CV 2, CV 5 and CV 6 or using a selectable pre-programmed speed table, loaded in the decoder. External Uploadable speed tables comprising of CV 67 through to CV 94, you can add any value to each of these CVs to make your own speed table. A convenient and easy way to do this is to use Decoder Pro . See also motor fine tuning.
- Which address the decoder should respond to, either the short or long address.
If you ever need to program CV 29 at the 2 = CV option you have to know the value of your combination above. Some values are:
- 34 Normal direction, DC OFF, Internal Speed Table and responding to the long address.
- 38 Normal direction, DC ON, Internal Speed Table and responding to the long address.
- 50 Normal direction, DC OFF, External Speed Table and responding to the long address
For all the combinations, see the decoder and the system manuals.
The Address - What does it mean and types?
To allow for individual control in DCC, each loco has its own decoder, that is programmed with its own unique address, normally the loco road number. To operate that loco, the address is entered into the throttle with what ever the operator wants that loco to do (command). This address and command, form what is called a DCC packet. The booster adds power to this packet, which is then transmitted to all parts of the layout. All decoders (locos) are listening and only the decoder with the matching address responds to the command.
It is this matching address scenario that gives DCC, its individual loco operation.
Most decoders now come with three types of addresses:
- The short 2 digit address. For NCE addresses 1 to 127.
- The Long 4 digit address. For NCE addresses 00 to 9999. Note: For NCE, placing a 0 in front of any 1 or 2 digit number makes it a long address.
- The Consist address. The Consist Address and Short Address are shared, using the 1 to 127 range. So there may be some conflicts here just be careful.
In most cases, DCC users use the Long 4 digit addresses to control their locos, e.g. 3801, 5335 etc. Use the short address for operating locos like the Austrains NRs e.g. NR52 NR60 NR109 etc.
There are times when two or more locos may intentionally move at once - consisting. See the notes on consisting later.
A decoder is programmed to adjust how the microprocessor, at the heart of a decoder, what it responds to and how it controls its outputs, the motor, lights, if applicable, sounds etc. For a DCC system and its components, they can be programmed to be set up each system or component like a throttle, in different ways, to best suit the individual. Working with the system manual, will provide all the options and what to program to give these features. What can be programmed for the decoders and system, are:
- Decoders:
- Assign a unique address for each decoder for independent control.
- Configure the decoder by selecting numerous parameters in CV 29.
- Fine tune the motors performance. This includes CVs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 116, 117 etc for NCE decoders. Also the use of Speed Tables and their associated CVs. For other brands see their relevant manuals.
- Selecting the headlights and any other lights to the users desired effect that range from Rule 17, dimmable, on/off, reversing, mars, beacon, gyra, strobe etc. See the relevant decoder manual.
- Sound decoders have many adjustments like volume, chuff rate, bell, whistle/horn selections, etc sounds. Sound decoder manuals are very comprehensive.
- The DCC system and components:
- Cab (throttle) addresses. The same reason each decoder requires a different address, so do throttles.
- Cab Parameters.
- Command Station parameters.
- Other system adjustments.
In the event of something going wrong when programming, the user may think that he has damaged the decoder because the loco does not respond. No damage is done, the decoder is just confused. Normal operation can be restored by resetting the decoder. For many decoders including NCE, place the loco on the Program Track and program CV 30 with 2. See the decoder manual. All CVs will be returned to the default values, where communications will allow the user to start over again. Note: After a reset the operating address is short address 3.
Systems and components can be similarly reset, see the manual.
There are a few modes of programming a decoder: Paged, Direct, Register, etc, to change a CV but the two terminologies we are familiar with NCE, are:
- On the Program Track or Service mode on a dedicated piece of track located in a yard on a siding etc.
- On the Main or operations mode programming abbreviated to POM that allows programming ANYWHERE on the layout.
As you become used to programming and you a free yourself from the MYTH that you program all the locos that are on the track that a lot of people still think can happen when POM is used and the NEED to read a CV that you just programmed, really happened, you will find POM is the most convenient type of programming.
Utilize on of the most powerful features of DCC and now almost all decoders support POM.
The pros and cons of each type are:
- You can read most decoder CV values and program all decoders.
- The Program Track is current limited and this allows for testing a new installation for correct wiring. This ensures that the decoder is not damaged if the wiring was incorrect.
- This type of programming does not require an address, so a loco that has become confused or is operating irregularly, it can be reset.
- To read CVs on the P/T, only one decoder (loco) can be read. A loco with two decoders, separate motor and sound decoders, the CVs cannot be read, without disconnecting one of the decoders from the track.
- Some people use this form of programming, because they can check that what they have programmed, is in the decoder, by reading the CV and confirming the write procedure. With clean track and wheels, all writes work.
- Using the Program Track can be somewhat inconvenient due the loco always has to be physically returned to the same piece of track. This inconvenience can be reduced by using POM mode of programming. See below.
- Programming on the Main POM or Operations Mode.
- POM is the easy way to program. No layout shutdowns or returning to specific place for programming.
- You cannot read CV values, just change them.
- POM is address dependant, just like operating the locos.
- POM can be done anywhere on the layout and hence is very convenient.
- POM in most cases, only needs the loco to be stopped, program a CV, then re-start the loco with the CV value taking effect immediately, confirming the write.
- POM enables on the fly programming or program as you run.
- Adjusting the motor performance CVs and sound volumes is really easy. Its dynamic programming.
- A great benefit of POM programming, is that the layout is NOT shutdown. How good is that for you club members without Power Cabs?
- Some users are very apprehensive about using POM mode programming, because they feel or have heard that it programs every loco. This is just a myth that should be corrected. For the same reason not all locos move, only the addressed loco/decoder gets programmed. POM is address dependant.
- POM is a very powerful feature and almost all decoders support this type of programming because of its convenience. I feel this is one of the greatest features of a DCC system. Try it and you will agree.
The Initial Programming of a newly installed decoder.
The Program Track is current limited so that a short from an incorrectly wired decoder during installation, wont damage the decoder. On completion of the installation of a decoder, place the loco on the Program Track and select either the 1 STD or 2 = CV programming option, where the Command Station will try to read CVs.
A correctly installed decoder will result with a displayed value at either of the above programming options. If the message CANNOT READ CV shows, then there may be a fault with the wiring. See the section, what does CANNOT READ CV mean?
Programming the address of a loco.
In a lot of cases, the first time user of DCC, this will be their first experience at programming to provide independent control. Using either of the below programming options, NCE makes it really easy by working out the correct CV values for the appropriate CVs for the desired address. Nothing to work out, its all done by the system automatically by following the prompts at:
1. On the Main. Operate the loco usually by 3 the default short address and selecting 1 = ADR then 1 = LONG then type the desired Long Address.
Note: Whenever you need to program the Long Address of a QSI equipped sound loco using POM, FIRST turn off the decoders Verbal Acknowledgement program CV 62 to 0, otherwise this procedure will not work.
2. On the Program Track by using 1 = STD option and follow the prompts. The same as what I call the Initial Check of a new decoder installation.
Note: If you get the CANNOT READ CV message during this procedure while programming a sound loco, you will need a Program Track booster from Tonys or Soundtraxx. For the time being, just press ENTER on this message, but only if you are sure there are no faults with the decoder installation. For more details see the section on What does CANNOT READ CV mean?
In a lot of cases, the loco will have the DC running, turned OFF. If the loco needs to be operated on a DC layout, CV 29 will have to be programmed to either 6 or 38 if programming for a short or long address respectively. NCE recommends all decoders to be set with the DC (or analogue) running OFF. For more details, see either: the CV 29 topic below, the decoder or system manual or this CV 29 Calculator
Basic programming of a loco your desired long address, better loco starting and lights.
Contrary to what a lot of people think, for motor only decoders, once the address has been changed by following the prompts at 1 = STD option on the Program Track or the 1 = ADR prompt using POM, you don't have to program any more CVs. You can operate the loco as is, for a reasonable loco start most probably with some lag and suitable lights for many prototypes.
To reduce or eliminate the locos lag on take off CV 2 Volts Start is increased. This single adjustment will dramatically improve the starting performance of the loco.
If the default setting did not provide the desired lighting effect, CVs for NCE, 120 and 121, need to programmed,. See the section of Light Effects.
So how hard is it to program a loco not hard at all? What's all the hype about? You certainly don't need how to program a computer or a degree in programming to program a loco in DCC.
Programming the address or any CV of sound locos on the Program Track.
When using the Program Track, to program any decoder, after entering the CV number you want to program, the system reads the decoder for the currently programmed value.
Due to the increased Inrush Current of sound decoders, you may get the CANNOT READ CV message that prevents reading ANY CV values. When this is displayed the users has to decide what can be done:
- This message during the first read of what I call the Initial Check for a newly installed decoder could mean a potential short caused by a fault in the decoder installation. What to do? Double check the installation and you'll have to decide, whether to proceed or not. This could lead to a dilemma. The only way in this situation, is to use a Program Track booster from Tony's or Soundtraxx. These will allow the read of a CV.
- With a loco/decoder that has been working, when the message CANNOT READ CV is displayed, just press ENTER and continue programming as normal. The entered CV will be programmed with the value.
- For a RTR loco or an operating sound loco, you can use POM and the 2 = CV option.
Note: Reading a CV value is NOT a requirement for programming a decoder, so if you are sure that this above message is NOT caused by a faulty installation, bad connection or dirty track/wheels. Press ENTER at this message and type in the desired value.
For more details, see What does the message CANNOT READ CV means? below.
What does the message CANNOT READ CV mean, when on the Program Track.
There are numerous reasons why the message CANNOT READ CV shows on the Procabs display while trying to program a decoder/loco on the Program Track. Many modellers are now seeing this message, now that they have bought their first sound loco (see item 7):
1. Wiring problems to the track that could include a faulty changeover switch, if installed, bad connections etc.
2. A broken wire or loose connection in the loco wiring
3. Dirty loco wheels.
4. Dirty/oxidized program track.
5. A faulty decoder installation.
6. A faulty decoder.
7. Trying to read a Sound Decoder CV.
Items 1 to 4 - Loss of electrical continuity:
Using a digital multimeter, selected to Volts A.C, should indicate that voltage (approx 10 15 volts) is present when the Program Track is selected by both, the changeover switch and the Procab. If there is voltage, then the problem is with dirty track/wheels, wiring inside the loco, the decoder or bad connections.
Note: The NMRA 8 pin plug in DCC Ready locos, are a known source of bad connections under those Black Caps. Check to see if the insulation is removed from all the wires and make sure no strands of wire have missed the hole and touching the motor or chassis.
Items 5 and 6 - A short:
5 - For a faulty decoder installation, check all wiring and rectify until no message appears and the C/S reads CV values. This indicates a correct decoder installation.
6 A faulty decoder can sometimes be bought back to life with a decoder reset. If still no response, then only a replacement will correct the problem.
Item 7 A type of short.
Many sound decoders cause this message due to the higher Inrush current of sound decoders and the Command Station cannot tell the difference between this larger current flow and a short, when attempting to read a CV during programming. Program Track boosters are available to allow reading CVs.
In most cases you can press ENTER here and just program as normal.
Note: You will have to be sure that the message was not displayed due to a fault (items 5 & 6 above) before you assume the Inrush Current issue.
Sound decoders have bigger and more capacitors than NON sound decoders. When power is first applied to a capacitor, maximum current flows initially then decreases as the capacitor charges up. When power is first applied to a decoder, this current is termed Inrush Current. The bigger and more capacitors of a sound decoder, creates a higher Inrush Current than a NON sound decoder.
For short protection on the Program Track, the current is limited so that a new installation can be checked and this low limited current wont damage the decoder if the wiring of the new decoder caused a short, thus saving the decoder and alerting the user of a potential problem.
To read a CV value on the Program Track, the decoder pulses the motor (or speaker on a sound only decoder). The pulses as sensed by the Command Station provide the value of the CV to be displayed on the screen. When attempting to read a CV of a sound decoder, the Command Station sees this higher Inrush Current, while trying to read a CV, as a short. The trouble is the Command Station cannot tell the difference between high Inrush Current and a short, so it shows the CANNOT READ CV message.
What should be done?
At the CANNOT READ CV message during programming, just write the value that you want after pressing ENTER The system will accept the write. You will not be able read CVs but you will be able to program the loco. Alternatively use Programming On the Main POM, to program your loco.
With sound locos becoming more popular since Broadway Limited released RTR locos with QSI chips, DCC operators cannot read the value of CVs. Tonys Train released a Power Pax and for the Soundtraxx Tsunami, Soundtraxx released the PTB-100. Both of these items are Program Track Booster and wired between the Power Pro and the Program Track. These allow users to read CVs of sound locos.
Reading CVs is not a prerequisite of programming a loco. You can completely program a loco using the Program on the Main POM (Operations) mode of programming, including changing to the 4 digit long address, without reading a CV.
For determining the loco current for a DCC decoder Use Slipping current not Stall current.
A loco motor would only ever STALL if the gearbox jammed up or there was some mechanical fault with the driveline. How often does this happen, hardly ever, Ive never had it happen to me and others that have been in the hobby much longer than me (nearly 20 years) say that it only rarely happens.
Why base the decoder current selection on a scenario that rarely happens.
A situation that happens regularly, is the loco stalls on a hill or runs into a stationary train etc. In most cases, the wheels will be spinning, but in some instances they wont but the power applied to the motor is far less than if it was at full speed. If it was at full speed, then the wheels would slip.
There is a big difference in the current between a slipping and stalled motor. The SLIPPING current is only a quarter of the STALL current. For example my NSW 45 Class diesel, Slipping Current = 320 mAs and the Stall Current = 1.4 Amps (1,400 mAs).
Using the above example, using the STALL Current value, I would have to use a 1.3 Amp D13SR or similar. Using the SLIPPING Current value, I could use a 1.0 Amp Z14SR Amp decoder or a 0.5 Lenz Gold Mini. The advantages here are enormous if space is at a premium. Using the same set of figures, I could not fit a Soundtraxx 1.0 Amp DSD-100LC or the latest 1.0 Amp Tsunami or the .75 Amp Tsunami Micro decoders. I am aiming to fit sound to all of my locos, so I would be in a bind if I used the STALL current value.
Most of the later types of decoders including the Soundtraxx Tsunami, have overload protection and in some cases, shutdown when the decoder overheats. These types of protection are there to cover the worst possible cases.
Some decoder manufacturers have removed the word STALL in their instructions and use the words Continuous and Peak (Stall) as is the case with NCE.
So use the SLIPPING Continuous current for determining the decoder Current Rating.
Bye the way, 20 of my locos have 1.0 Amp sound decoders and they are still operating 3 to 4 years later. 50% of my locos have stall currents in excess of 1.3 Amps. Most modellers that are using Soundtraxx DSD sound decoders are exceeding the specifications of the decoder, with no reports of damaging decoders due to normal every day running.
Is Left & Right Rail applicable to DCC during decoder installation.
Courtesy of Mark Gurries on NCE-DCC Yahoo group on May30, 2007.
The NMRA DC polarity convention covering rail polarity is: A positive rail polarity on the Engineer's Side of the locomotive with the engine Facing Forward will result in Forward motion. This allowed standardization of direction between multiple manufactures of DC locomotives. Hence when you MU multiple brands of DC locomotive on the track, they will all move in the same direction.
Most DCC decoders support DC mode, if turned on, so people can continue to run decoder equipped locomotives on a DC layout. As such if you plan to run your decoder equipped locomotive on DC, you should follow the same rail polarity rules if you plan to have this locomotive MU with standard DC locomotives or other Decoder equipped locomotives. The red wire goes positive rail as described by the rule.
If you never plan to run DC on this locomotive, it does not matter how you connect the red and black wires to the rails in terms of which goes which rail. Direction of the locomotive is controlled by the decoder and not the rail polarity.
The NMRA 8 pin DCC Ready Plug.
Manufactures of loco have been terminating the wiring in a loco from the pick ups, motor and lights (if installed) to a plug. In an effort to standardize this, the NMRA has provided a standard 8 pin plug for HO. This will allow the easy installation of a DCC decoder. For DC operation, this plug will be plugged into a diode board that s used for constant lighting with normally 1.5 volt incandescent lamps. If fitting a DCC decoder these 1.5 volt lamps will be damaged if the decoder is fitted without installing a voltage dropping resistor for these lamps. The decoders function operating voltage is about 12 14 volts DC.
Looking
at the plug from the socket side, the pins are numbered as I have notated them
in the diagram. I have seen numbers on these plugs that are not correct, so please
check the wires go to the right pins according to the photo below.
For the original wiring of the loco, it is not unusual to see just red and black wires. There maybe NO colour coding for the original loco wiring. The table below relates to the DCC decoder wiring colours that the manufacturers have standardized.
Note: The black caps
on the DCC Ready Plus are a confirmed source of bad connections. If you
are having problems with intermittent operation, please check these first. I
have even seen where the insulation has not even been removed or loose strands
of wire poking out from underneath these caps and touching the motor. This
shows up as a short when trying to program the loco.
This plug is so designed that the decoder can be inserted 180 degrees out, and the decoder will not be damaged, the loco may go the wrong direction and the lights will not work as the lamp common, is connected to the pin 3, the optional connection.
The connections to pins 4 and 8 to the track pickups can be reversed. This will not cause any problems in DCC. Reversing the connections to the motor will reverse the direction of the motor as this is DC power.
Note: The wiring to this DCC Ready Plug was incorrect on the Austrains 442 and lots of NRs. Please check these locos carefully can damage decoders.
For QSI equipped locos, see below.
4 digit addressing enables users to use the loco road number as the address thus reducing all the hassles associated with remembering which two digits to use when addressing the locos.
This can be done a few ways and will depend whether you are programming a RTR loco with a chip installed or a loco you have installed a chip into, using:
- 1 = STD or Initial Program option on the Program Track, where the Command Station will program the correct values of CV 17 and 18 after typing in your desired 4 digit Long address. No need to know these values all automatic.
- 1 = ADR option using Program on the Main- POM. Similar to above, the C/S does it all automatically.
- Individually programming CVs 17, 18 and 29 where you will have to know the values of both CV 17 and CV 18. You can get these by using this CV 17 & 18 Calculator. Program CV 29 with 34 for DC OFF or use this CV 29 Calculator to determine your value for CV 29. Note: If using this method on the Main - POM, CV 29 must be programmed LAST.
Note: Sound locos may cause the Procab to display CANNOT READ CV message when using the Program Track.
I find after checking a RTR locos operation on the default address of 3, the easiest way to program the Long Address is to use the 1 = ADR option using POM. This confirms that we have communication with the loco decoder (its running) and that the correct values of CVs 17 18 and 29 will be programmed into the decoder. On completion, the Procab shows ADDR and your new 4 digit number and you are now operating the loco with your new Long Address.
Note: CV 29 will be programmed with 34 that will disable DC operation of the loco. If you want to run your loco on DC, program CV 29 to 38 prior to using the loco on a DC layout otherwise you will have to reset the loco with the wand when you arrive at the DC layout, as the loco will not operate.
Note: Using the 1 = ADR option on QSI equipped locos see below.
Programming the Long Address for QSI Equipped locos.
After resetting the address of a QSI equipped loco or programming an out of the box loco with its loco number, the easiest way to do this is On the Main POM using the 1 = ADR option.
Prior to using POM to change the address, program CV 62 to 0 to turn off the verbal acknowledgement that interrupts multiple CVs from being programmed, that happens when using the 1 = ADR option.
- Operate the loco on 3 to confirm operation of the loco.
- Select POM.
- Select 2 = CV
- Program CV 62 to 0.
- Press PROG/ESC button to return to the normal operating window.
- Select POM again.
- Select 1 = ADR
- Select 1 for Long Address.
- Type in your desired address.
The Command Station works out the values required for CV 17 and CV 18 and programs CV 29 to 34, so it responds to the new Long Address. These 3 CVs are programmed, in sequence by the system. With the verbal acknowledgement ON, the QSIs starts saying CV 17 equals . While it is talking, it misses the CV 29 to 34 command.
If you want the QSI to announce further CV values while programming, program CV 62 to 1 again. The default value after a reset is 1.
Programming QSIs including Indexed CVs
Programming some of the QSIs CVs, is the same as what we are used to, just select the CV and program the decimal value, but for other CVs, QSI uses what they call Indexed CVs as there were not enough available CVs to cover all the required adjustments. Quite ingenious, but a new way of programming CVs that is a little hard to understand and certainly more difficult to implement.
These CVs are 51, 52, 55 and 56 and require a:
- Primary Index P.I., set in CV 49 for all of them
- And for some, a Secondary Index S.I., set in CV 50.
An example of programming a CV that uses only the Primary Index is CV 56.12 with a value of 32 is where:
· 56 is the CV where you program the desired value in this case 32.
· 12 is the value we program into CV 49 (P.I. the first pointer).
· To program CV 56.12 with a value of 32, you must program the P.I. CV with the pointer first. In this case
· Program CV 49 with 12 the first pointer.
· Program CV 56 with 32 the desired value.
An example of programming a CV that uses both the Primary and Secondary Indexes is CV 55.70.1, with a value of 10 is where:
- 55 is the CV where you program the desired value in this case 10.
- 70 is value you program into CV 49 (P.I. first pointer).
- 1 is what you program into the CV 50 (S.I. the second pointer).
- To program CV 55.70.1 with a value of 10, you must program the P.I CV first then the S.I CV, then CV 55.
- Program CV 49 with 70 first pointer.
- Program CV 50 with 1 the second pointer.
- Program CV 55 with 10 the desired value.
To determine the correct decimal value for a particular effect, you must use the QSI Q1a DCC Reference Manual Version 4.0.2 for Firmware 7 by Bit Weighting where you choose the effect and give the 1s and 0s their relevant bit weight for an 8 bit word. For some modellers, including me, this can be a little difficult to work out, similar to determining what value to program into Soundtraxx DSD and DSX CVs, using the Technical manuals.
If I have lost you in the above text, don't worry too much, there is an easier way, by using Decoder Pro.
AD60 Headlights Programming Indexed CVs example.
Programming the headlights for the AD60 to auto reversing headlights is an example of programming Indexed CVs with a total of 6 CVs needing programming. To do this, program the following CVs to:
- The Forward Headlight, that is on bright in forward and OFF in reverse, CV 55.70.1 has to be programmed with a value of 10 as per page 105 of the manual. This set by programming:
- CV 49 set to 70.
- CV 50 set to 1. and
- CV 55 set to 10.
- The Reverse Headlight, that is on bright in reverse and off in forward, CV 55.73.1 has to be programmed with a value of 160 as per page 110 of the manual. This is set by programming:
- CV 49 set to 73.
- CV 50 set to 1 and
- CV 55 set to 160.
Adjusting the Volume of QSIs with CVs including the AD60 including Individual Sounds Levels.
This requires programming Indexed CVs. In this case TWO CVs will have to be programmed.
Overall Volume of the QSIs can be adjusted 3 ways.
1. Easily adjusted by using the Wand if the QSI chip supports the wand.
- Position the wand across the loco where the instructions say to. In case of the AD60, just forward of the dome. It will start to announce short toots and in a descending order. Remove wand when the level is ok. At minimum and maximum levels, the decoder announces this.
- If the loco does not support the wand, then use method 2.
2. Using POM, programme both CV 49 to 0 and then CV 51 to between 0 no sound to 127 - max sound.
3. For NCE, using POM by using option 8 - QSI Sound. At the moment the Procab can only set CVs 51, 52 and 56.
· Using POM and on the menus, scroll through to 8 = QSI Sound. Press 8 and Enter.
· At the CV prompt, enter 51 for the CV.
· It will then prompt for the Primary Index, in this case enter 0 (CV 49 value from above).
· Now enter 0 to 127 for the appropriate volume.
Programming Individual Sound Volume levels.
|
Primary Index Entered into CV 49. |
Individual Sound |
Default. |
|
0 |
Whistle |
11 |
|
8 |
Bell (not in AD60) |
11 |
|
10 |
Chuff (Steam exhaust) |
11 |
|
16 |
Pump 1 |
11 |
|
19 |
Blower (hiss) |
8 |
|
21 |
Long Air Let-off |
11 |
|
22 |
Short Air Let-off |
11 |
|
24 |
Squealing Brakes |
11 |
|
26 |
Dynamo |
11 |
|
29 |
Boiler Pop-off |
11 |
|
30 |
Boiler Blow-down |
11 |
|
31 |
Water Injector |
11 |
|
34 |
Coupler Sounds |
11 |
These CVs are Indexed CVs with a P.I. From the table (left) enter the desired individual sound value into CV 49 and then program CV 52 as follows:
0 for No Sound, 1 15 sets the volume level, from the lowest level at 1 to the highest at 15 into CV 52.
For example, changing the whistle level to the highest volume 15 from the default 11 to make it louder.
CV 49 set to 0 and
CV 52 set to 15.
Using the Heavy Load feature.
One of the great features of the QSI chip in the Garratts is the "Heavy Load" feature. This feature is selected by using F9 on the throttle. If your DCC throttle can only support 8 functions, then the Heavy Load will have to be re-mapped. See manual.
Basically while operating on the flat, press F9 - one short toot from the loco. Now when increasing the throttle, the sound gets louder, simulating a labouring loco. Decrease the throttle and the sound gets softer, simulating a coasting loco. Press F7 will engage the Air Brakes/Wheel Flange sounds. All the time the "Heavy Load" is engaged, the loco maintains the same speed.
Back on the flat with the throttle near the original position prior to engaging "Heavy Load", press F9 - two short toots and the "Heavy Load" feature is set to OFF and the loco resumes under the control of the throttle.
Adjusting the Chuff Rate.
This is another indexed CV. CV 56.12. The NCE Procab can program this by POM and using Option 8. QSI sound.
- At CV prompt, enter 56
- Then enter 12
- Enter a value approx range 10 to 100 with the lower number less chuffs per rev. Default is 32.
- Some have tried programming 60 instead of 32 for what they feel is better. Not enough chuffs down low for me.
Every now and then a decoder gets confused and wont respond or has some form of irregular operation. Many problems with decoders are solved by resetting the decoder. These range from:
- Loco stopping due to a short and not starting again.
- A short on the layout somewhere causing a loco not to respond after being addressed.
- A power interruption causing some irregular running.
- While programming the decoder, the sequence was interrupted.
- Programming the decoder, the decoder just got confused.
- Out of the box the decoder did not work or showed some form of irregularity.
If at any time, a loco does not work, firstly suspect that it is still in a consist. Read the value of CV 19 and it should display 0. If it reads 0 do reset of the decoder on the Program Track. Most, if not all CVs will be set to their factory defaults
Reset Procedure:
Note: After a reset, the loco will ONLY respond to the short address of 3.
Place loco on the Program Track and program the appropriate CV with the value stated below.
- For NCE, write a value of 2 in CV 30 and cycle the power. With NCE, there is also a Programming on the Program Track - Option 7 RECOVERY PROGRAMMING that sets all the NCE CVs to the factory defaults.
- For others:
Soundtraxx All decoders Program CV 30 with 2 and cycle the power.
QSI Program CV 49 to 128, CV 50 to 255 and CV 56 to 113.
Loksound & Digitrax Program CV 8 with 8.
NCE & TCS Program CV 30 with 2 and cycle power.
Lenz Program CV 8 with 33.
Then re-program the long address. This can be achieved by following the prompts at the menu options of:
Note: If you cannot get your QSI equipped loco moving after you “killed” (cleared) a Consist, click here.
These decoders require more than the write 2 to CV 30 reset of all my other locos except Lenz and Loksound (8 into CV 8). Resetting the QSIs locos can be done by two methods:
- The Magic Wand if the loco supports this. Earlier locos with out the supplied magic wand, then there is a reset link on the decoder board. You will have to access this. To use the Wand, a cylindrical magnet with a plastic handle, you will have to know the location of the Reed Switch on the decoder, so that it can be operated by the wand. The location of this reed switch will be on the supplied instruction sheet with the loco. My first QSI did not come with this instruction sheet, so I had to pull the top off my Eureka 620/720 railmotor to ascertain where I had to place the Wand.
- To reset with the Wand: With power off to the loco, place the Wand close to the Reed Switch and turn power on. The loco when powered up with the reed switch closed by the Wand, the decoder resets all the CVs to the factory defaults. Re-address the loco by 3 and the QSIs announces Reset.
- In DCC, you can do an electronic reset by programming the below CVs with the appropriate values. As the address information may be corrupted, you may have to use the Program Track.
- Set CV 49 to 128.
- Set CV 50 to 255.
- Set CV 56 to 113.
- You will have to address the loco by "3" to operate it after a reset. To re-program the QSIs Long Address, it is easier to do it On the Main POM using the 1 = ADR option.
Prior to using POM to change the QSIs address, program CV 62 to 0 to turn off the verbal acknowledgement that interrupts multiple CVs from being programmed, that happens when using the 1 = ADR option.
- Operate the loco on 3 to confirm operation of the loco.
- Select POM.
- Select 2 = CV
- Program CV 62 to 0.
- Press PROG/ESC button to return to the normal operating window.
- Select POM again.
- Select 1 = ADR
- Select 1 for Long Address.
- Type in your desired address.
The Command Station works out the values required for CV 17 and CV 18 and programs CV 29 to 34, so it responds to the new Long Address. These 3 CVs are programmed, in sequence by the system. With the verbal acknowledgement ON, the QSIs starts saying CV 17 equals . While it is talking, it misses the CV 29 to 34 command.
If you want the QSI to announce further CV values while programming, program CV 62 to 1 again. The default value after a reset is 1.
The Loco goes the wrong direction after the installation of a decoder.
A common problem and this is due to:
- The motor + and - connections reversed compared to when the loco was operating on DC.
- A diesel is operating with long hood forward and the normal direction is short hood forward no arguments which is the right way round here, please. This would certainly show up when installing a plug n play decoder that does have the direction set.
Note: It does NOT matter which of the track pickups the red and black decoder wires connect to, as this does not control the direction in a DCC loco. The DCC track voltage is rectified inside the decoder.
Changing the direction can be altered by two procedures.
- Reversing (interchanging) the connections to the motor.
- Reversing the connections to the motor can be inconvenient if the loco is all assembled again.
- On an installation, I temporally wire up the motor connections, place loco on the Program Track and check for reading CVs. If o.k. I flip the switch and operate the loco. If the direction is wrong, I swap the motor wires.
- I then complete the installation knowing the loco goes the right direction.
- The beauty of this method is, the loco is going in the right direction, all the time see below reset note.
- Changing the direction electronically in CV 29.
- Read the value of CV 29 on the Program Track. Change the direction electronically by CV 29 by adding 1 if the value for CV 29 is an even value or subtracting 1 for an odd value. This procedure is simple. See below for the drawback with this method.
When you do a reset of a loco, it will give the direction bit value in CV 29 is 0 - NORMAL direction. A loco where the direction was changed electronically by adding 1 to the CV 29 value, the loco will go in the REVERSE direction after a reset.
I recommend changing the wires because of this reset scenario.
For NCE you can change the CV 29 value at either the 2 = CV or the 3 = CFG selections during programming in either the Program Track mode or POM mode.
DCC is a 5 to 8,500 Hz square wave A.C. signal, that the microprocessor in the decoder has to decipher, to issue speed commands and function selection continuously for the decoder to operate. Sometimes the decoder does get confused for some reason. A reported common problem and it has happened to me is that when there is a short on the layout, the decoder acts strangely with some funny result. Sometimes the address CVs are affected which will prevent communication with the decoder. This is seen as a locked up decoder. Sometimes this lock up could have been caused by Operator Error.
What should we do to correct this lockup or loco not operating situation? I have listed a few things below:
- Lack of Power: Move loco to a known clean track and check for power. This happens too often not to consider first.
- Consist Address: One common operator fault is that we are trying to get a loco to move that was in a Consist previously. Program CV 19 to 0. Also the operating command station may not know about an Advanced Consist that was set up on another layout. Set CV 19 to 0 and rebuild the consist if required and see next item.
- If it is a QSI loco it may be in shutdown mode (pressing F9 once when stopped). To exit Shutdown press F6 twice quickly. The loco sounds start and in a few seconds will be ready to operate. This is so common for QSIs. People want to shutdown the loco (Key out, door shut and off to sleep). The next time this loco is used and that could be months, people forgot that it was shutdown.
- Command Station may still have a consist assigned to this loco. This could be the case if the loco was taken to the club and CV 19 set to 0 to run it as above. Advanced Consists must be removed in the Command Station. A give away here with NCE is that when you select the loco, "CONXXXX" will show on the display. To clear the C/S, select Browse Consist menu on the Procab menu (PROG/ESC pressed 9 times or PROG/ESC and 9). Enter. This will sow you the locos in consist. If the loco you are trying to operate is here, then press CLEAR on this entry. The Command Station consist is removed.
- Wrong Address: Make sure you are addressing the loco by the right address. The Short Address is without a 0. Also CV 29 may be incorrect for the address you are trying to use.
- Command station may be 128 speed steps configuration and decoder only supports 14 speed step configuration. Reset C/S
- Manual Notching: If a diesel sound decoder, you may have this set. Set to auto notching.
- Voltage too high: If a QSI equipped loco does not run on an Atlas or Roco DCC system, then track voltage may be too high, greater than 22 volts DCC. The decoder shuts down when above this. Note: the loco lets out a few hoots if the voltage has exceeded 22 volts.
- After an Initial Installation: When programming a loco for the first time, many new users do the 1 = STD programming to set up the loco, go through the procedure and set both short and long addresses and forget to set the address in the CFG option at the end. If they wanted a long and press Enter at the CFG the loco will only respond to the short address. Check this, if the loco never ran after doing a 1 = STD program.
If the loco still does not work after checking the above, place the loco on the Program Track and read the following CVs.
- If Cannot read CVs or something similar shows on display, the probable cause is dirty wheels, faulty pickups, bad connections, faulty/damaged decoder or faulty Program Track wiring. Isolate and rectify. Sound locos also cause this message. See the topic Why Program Track cannot read CVs
- CV 29 may be set incorrectly, ensure correct value for the required type of address (short or long) is being used.
- CV 3 Acceleration set to high, reset to 0
Note: Ensure acknowledgement of programming command by the small movement of the loco.
If all else fails to get the loco to work, do a Reset.
When a reset is done, the decoder will ONLY respond to the short address of 3. You will have to reprogram the long 4 digit address if that was being used any CVs that you changed to fine tune motor and lights.
For both NCE TCS and Soundtraxx, to reset decoders, select CV 30, enter value of 2 and cycle power.
For NCE system users you can also do this at the Program Track and select option 7 Recovery Programming with the new EPROM.
Why is the locos top speed lower in DCC than in DC prior to fitting a decoder?
I have measured some decoder motor outputs to confirm what I have seen on my own layout and many others would have seen. For the comparison readings, I set up my decoders and system, to provide 14.2 Volts DCC, the NMRA HO nominal value, at the decoder input (red and black wires).
With my NCE DCC Power Pro 5 A with the throttle at Speed Step 28 out of 128 (Full Speed) and the DCC Track Voltage adjusted to 14.2 Volts DCC with my DCC Pocket Tester (Pricom) with the loco running at full speed with wheels slipping (loco stationary) on a test track, I have the following DC Voltages at the motor terminals. (Note CV 5 programmed to "255" if applicable and Internal Speed Tales set - CV 29 at "34" and CV 3 & 4 at "0"). Listed below are the DC voltages at the motor:
- Soundtraxx Tsunami - 11.6 Volts DC.
- Soundtraxx DSD-100LC - 12.6 Volts DC.
- TCS MC2 - 11.6 Volts DC.
- NCE D13SR - 13.0 Volts DC.
- Lenz 1034 - 12.3 Volts DC.
- TCS T1 - 11.3 Volts DC.
The decoder electronics "drop" between 1 to 3 volts. This I would consider normal. Inside the decoder, the electronics has a bridge rectifier and transistors/FETs etc to make the DC for the PWM motor drive voltage etc, that have "voltage drops" across them.
Depending upon what decoder is fitted to the loco, the top speed of a DCC equipped loco will be lower than when this same loco was operated on DC before a decoder was installed. This has been my observation for many years and now here are the test results. In the case of a Tsunami, the decoder in question, there is a voltage "drop" of about 2.5 volts across the decoder with a top speed motor voltage of 11.6 volts. This does not take into account the voltage drop of the layout wiring etc. This would reduce the voltage even further.
One other thing to consider in "top speed" running, is the DCC track voltage. NCE is operating at 14.2 Volts DCC, the "nominal" NMRA recommendation for HO. Of the other U.S. made DCC systems, some operate around the same 14.2 volts DCC but others operate with a higher voltage. I have measured 22.5 Volts DCC on a European DCC system. The Europeans seem to want their locos to go "faster". Have you noticed how bright the incandescent headlights are on these systems or they have blown.
Many DC power packs with a single late can model loco drawing about 200 to 300 mAs, the voltage output would be nearer to more than 16 volts, and not the 14 Volts DCC that many DCC user are using. This would provide an even higher top speed in DC.
Many variables to consider when fitting decoders to locos and comparing their DCC and DC "top speeds". For goods locos this would not be a problem, but for passenger locos it may be a problem. I have never understood, if the prototype of the model you have went at 100 MPH, why you would want the model to go at 100 scale MPH. That would be 3 feet in 1.75 seconds and 30 feet in 17.5 seconds. I guess some people have extremely long layouts, but for me I want the "operating" experience to last a little longer and with my track laying abilities, I would have to install safety nets around the layout.
A decoder, on top of its motor control and sound circuitry if applicable have Functions. The amount of functions varies but most have at least two. The common effect for these two functions, are headlights. Many decoders have more, like the 3 function D13SR and the 4 function D14SR etc.
Each function can be programmed to one of many different effects. See the EFX Lighting Effects table of your NCE decoder manual. Decoders from all decoder manufacturers have the same arrangement, but not necessarily the same effects as NCE and they certainly use different CV numbers for their effects.
The NCE decoder uses these CVs:
- CV 120 is used to control Output 1, the No 1 tab or the white wire.
- CV 121 is used to control Output 2, the No 2 tab or the yellow wire.
- CV 122 is used to control Output 3, the No 3 tab or the green wire. etc
The current capacity of the function must be considered when connecting a light or other load. At the moment NCE decoders are providing only 40 mAs outputs. If you connect say an 80mAs lamp, this will overload the circuitry and will most probably damage the Function Output transistor/FET etc. So be careful when connecting lamps. No more than 40 mAs.
Selecting Functions on NCE throttles.
- Functions F0 - F9 = Press the keypad number button. EG If a function has been mapped to operate with F5, press 5
- Functions F10 F12 = Press SHIFT and F10 or F11 or F12 on the bottom row of buttons on the Procab.
- Functions F13 F28 =
Each decoder function output can be programmed as a Rule 17, dimmable, reversing headlight or as a Mars, Beacon, Gyra, marker lights. The flashing rate of these lights can be adjusted. The available options are limited only by what the manufacturer implements in the decoder. Not all manufacturers provide the same level of effects.
All present day NCE decoders offer software version 3.5 that has the same lighting effects for all decoders, just the quantity of functions change in different decoders. Using the Decoder Manual, I have copied the EFX Lighting Effects below.
All NCE D13SRs now are released with 4 functions that means CV 123 is added. Below is the version 3.5 firmware copied from the DA-SR decoder at http://www.ncecorporation.com/pdf/dasr.pdf
- To program the lighting effect, add the values of the effects you desire. For example for my Reversible Dimmable LED Headlights, I have added each value as below:
- "0" for on/off feature.
- "32" on DIM when both FO and F4 are operated, otherwise bright. (This dims the headlight when F4 is operated).
- "128" from the Flag notes below add this value if using LEDs. This gives a different PWM duty cycle for LEDs to give an appropriate DIM voltage. Without adding this "128", you would have the DIM voltage for incandescent lamps that would be too high to make a difference for LEDs.
- 1 From the Flag Notes below. add this value, if you want this effect to only be active in the FORWARD direction. Note adding 2 would make the effect only active in the REVERSE direction. This is how you get the automatic changing of the headlights with direction changes.
This gives a total of:
· "161" for CV 120 for my Front Headlight that is connected to the white wire.
· "162" for CV 121 for my Rear Headlight that is connected to the yellow wire.
The headlight will only illuminate in the direction of travel and dimmed by pressing F4.
- The headlight is operated by the function button F0, that has been Mapped by default to the HEADLIGHT button on the Procab. On the Cab04 you press 0 to illuminate the headlights.
- The beauty of the FO function is that it has an action that alternatively energises Output 1 and Output 2 with each direction change of the loco. This means that when loco goes one direction, Output 1 in energised and when the loco goes the other direction Output 2 is energised. This has been designed this way to enable auto reversing headlights that some operators like me, want. The FO function has two parts the FO Forward, and FO Rear written FOF and FOR respectively.
- Each Output of the decoder can be assigned to any function button. This is called Function Mapping.
An interesting example of headlight operation, was mentioned on the NCE Yahoo list in Oct 06, that gave a fully independent headlight operation using a combination of headlight effects and re-assigning function buttons (Function Mapping). The relevant CVs and values are copied below. This is just an example of how flexible decoders are in controlling the headlights, providing modellers with the effect they desire in endeavouring to get their best effect.
These CVs were programmed with their respective values CV33=1, CV34=1, CV35=2, CV120=32, CV121=36 and CV122=0.
CV 33, 34 and 35 are Function Mapping CVs that when programmed, re - mapped the outputs to operate by the relevant function buttons and CVs 120, 121, 122 etc, determines which lighting effect is applied to each of the outputs 1, 2, 3 etc.
- CV 33 set to "1", will operate output 1, when F0 Fwd is operated.
- CV 34 set to "1", will operate output 1, when F0 Rear is operated.
- CV 35 set to "2", will operate output 2, when F1 is operated.
- CV 120 set to "32", will provide Output 1 with an on/off light that will be "dim" when F0 and F4 are on, otherwise it will be bright.
- CV 121 set to "36", will provide Output 2 with an on/off light that will be "dim" when F0 and F8 are on, otherwise it will be bright.
- CV 122 set to "0" will provide a lighting effect on Output 3 of an on/off "bright" light that cannot be dimmed by either F4 or F8.
It does not mater what direction the loco is going, direction has NO influence on the headlights at all. Either or both headlights can be selected on, with F4 dimming the front and F8 dimming the rear any combination true independent light control.
Once a decoder output has been programmed to provide the desired lighting effect, this output can be mapped or connected to any function button. Tying this particular lighting effect or a particular sound to a function, is called Function Mapping.
In the previous NCE Lighting Effect topic, the output of the F1, F2 etc were programmed with a value of 160. This provided an ON/OFF headlight dimmed with F4 operating LEDs. The function was not mapped in these NCE decoders because they are headlights and can be controlled by F0F and FOR, for direction change.
The above table from a Soundtraxx Tsunami sound decoder shows how each function button (left column) can be connected or mapped to particular sound or light effect shown on the top line. Mapping a function button (F0 to F12) is achieved by programming the applicable CV (33 to 46) with the desired effects value, shown in the column below the sound or effect.
Cross referencing the bold values, in the table shows the default sound/effect for each function button. For example F2 operates the Whistle. From the table, it can be seen that F2 can be mapped to operate the Headlight, Backlight, Whistle, Bell, FX5, FX6, Dynamo and short Whistle all the sounds/effects NOT in the blocked out section.
All decoders have tables like the Tsunami shown above, use the same cross referencing method to program the applicable CV for the applicable function, so as to connect/set the desired sound or lighting effect.
For example "F6" (CV 40) can be mapped so that it operates the Bell, when it is pressed.
The default settings of the Tsunami provide the effect , the values shown in bold .
The above table from a Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder manual shows the settings with the default settings, shown in bold. Using this table, you can assign each function button F1 (CV 35) to F12 (CV 46) to one of 8 outputs, but only to the values . FO(f) CV 33 and FO(r) CV 34 are for the headlight. All decoder manuals have a table similar to this but obviously sound decoders have more effects, enabling more options.
A function button can be mapped to operate any output within the Function Mapping Table of the Decoder Manual and can activate more than one effect. A few examples from the Tsunami. See the above table.
- The Tsunami the default setting for CV 33 is "65", and CV 34 is 66". This provides the headlight ON and the sound of the dynamo when in the forward direction and the Backlight ON and dynamo sound in the reverse direction.
- You could also re-map the brake sound from the default of F11, - CV 45 set to "64" to a new single button function F9, for easier operation by setting CV 43 to "128". You have now re-mapped F9 to the Brake sound instead of the Water Stop.
- NCE decoders use F4 to dim the headlights. The default for dimming the headlight on the Tsunami is F7. I want all my decoders to use F4 for consistency. I need to re-map F4 for this. Program CV 38 to "128". Its that easy. Now F4 dims the headlights on the Tsunami.
Auto Reversing Headlights in a Consist with NCE.
I wanted auto reversing, dimmable headlights for my diesels and from the Light Effects Table, I programmed the following:
- CV 120 to 33 for incandescents or 161 for LEDs.
- CV 121 to 34 for incandescents or 162 for LEDs.
This works perfectly and they DIM when F4 is operated. When two diesels are consisted with the rear ends facing each other, I wanted the facing rear ends headlights to never illuminate, but work normally when NOT in a consist. They are regularly separated on my layout.
From the manual, this should be possible, I can do it with my Soundtraxx and TCS decoders but no mater what I program into CV 21 and 22, it doesnt work, it seems that NCE decoders with the version 3.3 and 3.5 software dont support this lighting effect that I and many others want, while other brand decoders can.
During a recent (Mar 07) discussion on the Yahoo NCE group, a few members discussed this inability to set up loco headlights when in a consist as above. One modeller, Bob became so frustrated with not getting the effect explained above, that he disconnected the facing headlights, but is should be possible with DCC.
Chris Heili on 17 Mar 07 came to the rescue with his method (copied below) that gives the above effect. I have not tried it as I dont have any NCE decoders in these diesels anymore. The theory sounds correct and it will work because it takes a different approach. Where Bob physically disconnected the facing headlights, Chris has disconnected them with DCC.
Chriss solution:
Here's my quick and simple solution for NCE decoders with function mapping.
When setting up an advanced consist I use CV33 & CV34 to "disable" lights by mapping the Output to a "Non-Existent" Function. IE: CV33=0 or CV34=0. The values listed below are for a consist that will only have an operational HL of the lead Loco and BU of the Rear Loco with any Mid Locos being always off. The lighting can be turned on and off with F0 as usual and will be directional. This is assuming you have your lighting effects set to normal directional lighting prior to doing this.
Here is how I setup a consist:
If Lead Loco will be FWD: CV33=1 & CV34=0
If Lead Loco will be REV: CV33=0 & CV34=2
Mid Locos: CV33=0 & CV34=0
If Rear Loco will be REV: CV33=1 CV34=0
If Rear Loco will be FWD: CV33=0 CV34=2
If you program on the main, programming right to the CV, it takes less than a minute to setup 3 locos. You can do it before or after setting up your advanced consist. If you leave your consists together all the time, your golden. If you're making and breaking all the time it's only 1 extra step.
To return to normal directional light after removing a loco from a consist, just set CV33=1 and CV34=2.
In light of the fact that you're willing to spend a minute or two setting up a consist, an extra minute for correct lighting is worth
it to me. By the way I've only tried this with a Power Cab and NCE decoders.
Chris Heili
Dunbar & Wausaukee Railroad
Marcus Note: While it provides the effect we want, the fact that I have to program CVs 33 and 34 back, to provide non consist light effects is a hassle. The two different effects can be set up automatically in Soundtraxx and TCS decoders without re-programming, when locos are de-consisted, I wonder why I cannot do it with NCE?
Using LEDs or Incandescent Lamps.
See my web site article Headlights for DCC.
Identifying Resistors Resistor Colour Chart.
Holding the resistor with the GAP to the right.
4 band top.
1st band = the first digit.
2nd band = the second digit.
3rd band = the multiplier how many 0s to add to the first two digits.
4th band = the tolerance in %.
The example is a yellow for 4, purple for 7, orange for 3 0s and red for 2% bands equals 4,7,000 a 47,000 ohm 2% tolerance resistor, commonly called a 47K resistor.
5 band bottom.
1st band = the first digit.
2nd band = the second digit.
3rd band = the third digit.
4th band = the multiplier how many 0s to add to the 3 digits.
5th band = the tolerance in %
The lower example green for 5, Blue for 6, Black for 0, Red for 2 0s Brown for 1% bands equals a 5,6,0,00 a 56,000 ohm 1% tolerance resistor, commonly called a 56K.
Resistors are manufactured in a range of values and wattages (power).
Resistance values: the two common ranges are:
· E12 series that comes in twelve values per decade - 10, 12, 15, 18, 22, 27, 33, 39, 47, 56, 68 and 82. The above two 47K and 56K resistors fall in this range.
· E24 series comes in twenty four values per decade - 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 27, 30, 33, 36, 39, 43, 47, 51, 56, 62, 68, 72, 82, and 91.
Wattage:
· 1/4, 1/2 and 1 watt carbon or metal film resistors
· 5, 10 25 etc watt wire wound resistors (high power types).
Wattage is the rating of the resistor. When current flows through a resistor like in our LED and Incandescent headlight examples, the voltage that has to be dropped will be converted into heat. The higher the current, the more heat generated. This heat has to be dissipated by the resistor and depending on the amount of heat and the location, this may cause some damage.
Power (heat) equals Amps x Amps x ohms. A couple of examples:
- The common 1,000 Ohm or 1 K resistor used with LED headlights, will restrict the current flowing through the LED with 14 Volts DC on the Blue, Common Function output, to a maximum .0125 Amps or 12.5 mAs and .15 watts will be dissipated. A 1/4 watt resistor will be suitable.
- For Incandescent 10 to 20 mAs 1.5 volt lamps a 1,000 ohm or 1 K 1/4 watt resistor, similar to the LED installation above.
- For 40 to 60 mAs 1.5 volt lamps, use a 200 ohm BUT at approximately .75 watts, this will get quite hot. To reduce the effect of the heat use two resistors, twice calculated value in parallel. For this 200 ohm example, two 400 ohm, no such E12 value, so two 390 ohm 1/2 watt resistors in parallel would run cooler due more body to dissipate the heat.
For the hobbyist and the like of us model railroaders, the E12 values are close enough and are more readably available and cheap. Most electronic stores carry this E12 range.
Surface Mount resistors come in different sizes determined by the wattage rating. Ones used on our decoders etc, are 805 and use a similar resistor code marking. The first two numbers are the two most significant figures and the 3 is how many 0s there are. Eg. A 4,700 ohm (47 K) resistor is shown as 473. A 2,700 ohm (2.7 K) resistor is shown as 272 etc that are converted using 4 band resistor colour code markings.
In digital electronics an analogue voltage has to be converted into 0s and 1s providing a certain number of voltage levels representing the voltage from minimum to maximum. In DCC the number of different levels, are called Speed Steps. The number of speed steps depends on the system and decoder.
Early decoder only had 14 different speed steps (levels) where the voltage between steps was about 1 volt for HO, resulting in a jerky operation. For this reason only very basic decoders come with 14 speed steps. Now, 28 and 128 are the normal amount of speed steps. 128 speed steps are produced from a 28 speed step table, by the decoder by a process called interpolating.
For a maximum voltage of 14 volts DC, each speed step on a straight line speed curve will equal:
- 14 Speed Steps 1 volt per increment.
- 28 Speed Steps 0.5 volt per increment.
- 128 Speed Steps 0.11 volts per increment.
Display throttles show the speed of the loco in Speed Steps but depending on the speed table (see below) used in the decoder, Speed Step 14 out of 28 or 64 out of 128, this setting may not be half voltage and most probably wont be half speed.
The line plotted by the voltage versus speed step, provides a Speed Table In NCE decoders the default speed table curve is a straight line, blue in the diagram below. That is the same approximate 0.5 volt DC for each 28 speed step increment.
The
default speed table/curve can be modified by programming CVs 2, 6 and 5 as
shown by the pink line to improve the locos performance and how it responds to
the throttle position. This curve has smaller increments for the first half and
larger increments for the second half, providing a two step performance curve.
External (up loadable) speed tables are developed by programming a value between 0 and 255 for each of the 28 speed steps, CVs 67 to 94. This curve will take the shape of the programmed speed step values. A typical curve is the one shown in green that progressively increases the difference between each speed step. An easier way than individually programming each speed step that would take about 15 minutes, is to use Decoder Pro. See the section on Decoder Pro.
Some decoders dont support CVs 5 and/or 6. In these decoders you have a choice to select an internal speed table or make an external one. Check the applicable Decoder Instruction manual. Soundtraxx does not support CV 5 Volts Max and CV 6 Volts Mid and QSI does not support CV 6
PWM - Pulse Width Modulation The voltage.
Pulse Width Modulation, PWM, is a cheap and easy to manufacture technique to control DC motors. Some DC power packs and most DCC decoders use this technique.
PWM circuitry generates
voltage pulses of constant amplitude, at a certain frequency. The wider the
pulses, the higher the effective voltage, thus increasing the speed of 
the motor. This
type of control, helps overcome the motor inertia (mechanical resistance),
providing excellent slow speed.
PWM has the advantage of very little heat compared to developing a DC voltage which would certainly cause the extra problem of heat sinking the output components. The disadvantage of PWM is that it causes some motors to hum/buzz, very irritating especially in DCC with sound depending on frequency.
PWM frequency:
Early noisy DCC decoder about 2 kHz.
Later quiet decoders above 16 kHz.
Sound decoders 25 kHz.
These quiet decoders and the sound decoders at 25 kHz still have pulses but at these frequencies are above the audible hearing range and thus are quiet, hence the terminology.
Frequency vs Torque: With the higher frequency to reduce the motors hum/buzz, the torque of the motor was reduced, thus making the slow speed performance, a little worse. Decoder manufacturers introduced extra pulses to combat this lower torque, namely torque compensation, dither, etc by intermittently introducing larger pulses at lower frequency to give increased torque at the high pulse frequency. These decoders now provide superb low speed running.
Fine Tuning decoders to give better loco speed response.
With DCC you can adjust how the motor performs by adjusting the motor control CVs namely 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and any extra ones, see decoder instructions. Using CVs 2, 5 and 6, called, using the internal speed tables. Programming these 3 CVs provides:
- CV 2 Volts Start, enables loco to start moving at speed step 1, as soon as you turn the throttle.
- CV 5 - Volts Max, can be adjusted to reduce a locos top speed.
- CV 6 Volts Mid, adjusts the middle speed step, to change the linear speed increments to flatten the first half and make the second half, steeper, see diagram left. This improves the slow speed response by smaller speed increments per speed step, so the first half of throttle rotation may give say 30% of speed change.
Some decoders support external
speed tables. This is done by individually programming a value into
each of CVs 67 to 94 to give the desired speed curve. A typical shape of one of
these is show in green in the diagram. To individually enter 28 CV values will
require a lot of time, especially if adjustment has to carried out and to
adjust many decoders. This is best done with Decoder Pro, see the
section on Decoder Pro for details.
Some decoders offer further motor control CVs to give better slow speed due to the increase in PWM frequency affecting the motors torque. Manufacturers have coined different names for these including dither, torque compensation etc. Check decoder instructions as these are manufacturer specific CVs and all makers use different CV numbers.
Note: Soundtraxx decoders do not support CV 5 and CV 6. Select one of the 14 internal speed tables. To reduce a locos top speed, this will have to be done by programming values into CVs 67 to 94, as above by using the User Loadable Speed Table.
During the Initial Programming, I suggested the only CV that needs to be adjusted to get satisfactory running, was CV 2 Volts Start. This was to get rid of the lag on loco start up. Other fine tuning CVs are:
- CV 3 Momentum acceleration.
- CV 4 Momentum braking.
- CV 5 Volts Max
- CV 6 Volts Med.
- CV 116 Torque Compensation Kick Rate, frequency.
- CV 117 Torque Compensation Kick Depth, voltage.
CVs 116 and 117 provide a little extra pulses or kicks that improves the low end performance. When the decoders PWM frequency was increased to 16 kHz to produce the more desirable quiet motor control, it lost a little low speed oomph (torque) when compared to the noisy 2 kHz motor drive. Other manufacturers use different CV numbers and names for the same feature for the same reason. Adjust these CVs to the manual description or till you get the best results.
The easiest method to program these motor control CVs, and any other CV, is to use Programming on the Main POM. The benefit of this is that you get instant results out on the track without the inconvenience of returning to the Program Track.
Note: A lot of users want to check what value they have programmed into a decoder, by reading it immediately after writing it. This can only be done on the Program Track. When using POM to program, with the NCE Procab, you write a value to a CV, say CV 2 programmed to 25. Press ESC/PROG and the loco is ready to operate to test the change. If you're not happy, program CV 2 again, when you enter 2 for the CV you want to change, the last value that you programmed this CV to, in this operating session, comes up on the Procabs display. In this case 020 is displayed. This way you know what was programmed before.
Said another way, the system remembers (it does not read it) the last programmed value for that CV, so long as it was in this session.
Program all of these CVs until your loco has the best starting, low speed running, momentum for acceleration and braking. The CVs for torque compensation really provide much smoother constant speed low speed running. Tweak these for the best results. When using the Torque Compensation CVs, set CV 2 to 0 and program these for the best starting. Also see the manual.
Some of the Lenz and all of the ESU Loksound range come with Back EMF. This feature provides the best slow speed running and the loco always moves off at Speed Step 1 irrespective of the load. For more details and comparisons, see below topics.
The common can motor used in our locos comprises of a 3 or 5 pole laminated steel armature spinning within 2 stationary permanent magnets. Each pole is made up with many turns of fine wire and terminated at a 3 or 5 segment commutator. The commutator is so arranged that it will cause the pole of the armature to be magnetically opposite to the adjacent magnet. The opposing magnetic fields repel each other thus rotating the armature. The same armature pole continually changes from a north pole to a south pole to a north pole etc, as it passes the two magnets thus continually providing a force. This is why the motor keeps rotating.
The size of the conductors (resistance) in the armature fields, determines the current flowing providing the rotating magnetic field. The amount of current flowing and the type of magnets used, determines how much force is provided by the motor. Can motors in our locos for the last 15 years spin at higher RPMs and are geared down with a typical 28:1 and 36:1 ratio NWSL gearboxes, provide motor that draw currents in the range of 50 to 200 mAs, allowing us to use much smaller sized decoders. A real good send to a modeller installing DCC decoders into his DC fleet.
The motor speed in controlled varying the pulse width of the constant amplitude voltage (Pulse Width Modulation- PWM) that inturns varies the current through the motor and the magnetic force, varying the speed.
When the current is turned off, between each of the pulses, the motor acts like a generator, producing a voltage that is called Back EMF (Electromotive Force). This happens in quiet decoders like the NCE range, at about 15,000 times a second.
Decoders like Lenz Back EMF decoders and similar, measure this Back EMF voltage and use it as feedback to tell the decoder how fast the armature is rotating. This then provides a constant speed of the loco, irrespective of the load. QSI and the Soundtraxx Tsunami use this back EMF to control the sounds of the decoder.
Setting the throttle to speed step 1 or any other speed, the loco moves off at this speed and maintains this speed. If the motor slows or speeds up, the decoder senses this by the reduction or increases in the back EMF, and it adjusts the width of the PWM pulse accordingly. This process happens many times a second, and thus enables a loco to maintain the slowest speed step continuously, irrespective of load and mechanical resistance. To the operator you cannot see this happening, you just see the speed staying the same.
Going up a hill or descending, this same decreasing/increasing back EMF is sensed by the decoder and the decoder adjust the motor speed. This is similar to a motor cars cruise control.
Consisting locos with Back EMF decoders.
Using Back EMF in locos that are consisted together can cause bucking that causes irregular speed and noisy operation. This is caused by each decoder adjusting its own motors speed and having a variable load caused by the other motor. The two locos are fighting each other. Some decoders have CVs to adjust the level of the back EMF feature and to also reduce its effect with increasing speed.
The amount of bucking and noise depends on the loco mechanisms and how much Back EMF effect is turned on in the decoder. Some users of multiple Back EMF consists have reported that they don't have any problems, but others do. Once again, your mileage may vary.
Operators of O scale where they have two motors controlled by Back EMF decoder have also the same variation in results some have a problem and some don't.
Comparing decoder motor control features, namely Back EMF, Torque Compensation, Dither etc.
Stated simply, if you want your loco to move off from stationary at speed step 1 every time, irrespective of the train load, use a Lenz Back EMF decoder. But, yes there is always a proviso, the extra cost of these decoders, and this can be a significant percentage difference. Read on for the full explanation.
The relationship between PWM frequency CV 9, noise and performance (oomph).
DCC decoders use Pulse Width Modulation PWM techniques to control the motor, lights etc in the loco, but depending on the PWM frequency, may cause a buzz/hum from the motor. This motor buzz/hum varies, depending on the mechanism used.
In the early decoders, the PWM frequency could be adjusted between about 200 2,000 Hz (cycles per second) and many operators complained about the noise from these decoders. The noise from some locos is so loud that it had its own sound system, not too prototypical but it was cheap. This adjustment in most cases varied the noise slightly but the noise was still very evident in the noisy mechanisms.
For successful quieter operation, manufacturers increased the PWM frequency to about 15,000 Hz hence the term quiet decoders. The noise is still there, but higher than our audible hearing range. Most, if not all manufacturers now use this higher PWM frequency. Getting rid of the noise problem created a new problem. These quiet decoders caused the motor to loose its oomph (torque). Now was this a bigger problem than the original noise one? This also required adjusting CV 2 Volts Start, to get the loco to move off at speed step 1 or close to it.
An example of this is on my early NCE Version 3.2/3.3 software quiet decoders, I could adjust the PWM frequency using CV 9. Adjusting CV 9 to the higher values with 255 the lowest PWM frequency but this turned the quiet feature of these decoders OFF. This generally gave the decoder more oomph This lower PWM frequency gave a very noisy motor but the loco moved off at speed step 1. This defeated the purpose of introducing these decoders, but due to the loss of oomph, modellers played around with CV 9 to give the best compromise between noise and oomph. Adjusting CV 9 to 0, gives the highest frequency of 15,625 Hz, the loco motor is quiet but I had to adjust CV 2 to 40 (using 128 speed steps) on my NCE Procab to provide the loco to move off at or near speed step 1.
Manufacturers introduced an extra enhancement to the PWM voltage to the motor to overcome this loss of torque oomph, by adding an extra magic pulse of different frequency and amplitude. NCE calls it Torque Compensation and uses CV 116 - kick rate (frequency) and CV 117 - kick strength (amplitude). TCS call it Dither, and use CV 56 - frequency and CV 57 voltage. Digitrax call it Torque Compensation etc.
This now gave a quiet decoder that gave super slow speed and great performance (oomph) WITHOUT the hum/buzz from the motor/mechanism. Manufactures coined the term Silent Running decoders. The NCE and TCS decoders that come with the Torque Compensation and Dither do not support CV 9 (PWM frequency) and programming this CV does nothing. The decoder just seems to ignore this. For NCE all decoders now are shipped with version 3.5 of the software.
Low Speed Performance.
In the past I have used, NCE's D13SRs and N12SRs and TCSs T1s and M1s as my motor decoders. Depending on space availability and location against cost, would determine which one. Each of these decoders offers torque compensation or the similar dither for this enhancement to the slow running speed characteristics of these decoders. I adjust the torque compensation or dither volts and frequency CVs. The final product is better than a decoder without these features. My initial decoders were NCE and I adjusted the relevant CVs to achieve the best result.
NCEs Torque Compensation and TCSs Dither are a "fixed" amount of "enhancement" signal that does work. Using my electrical/automotive experience, this type of correction is what is called "open loop" (no feedback) This enhancement will not change according to what is actually happening, like when the load changes,
Note: If you don't adjust torque compensation or dither CVs for volts and frequency, or operate these decoders with the minimum values, the loco may need a higher throttle setting (higher speed step setting) to get the loco to move off from stationary. This may be interpreted as a slower decoder. As the dither or torque compensation introduces more oomph to overcome the initial inertia of the loco and possible mechanical resistance because of the higher PWM frequency, CV 2 may have to be adjusted to get the loco to move off at the lowest speed step setting. Also setting dither and/or torque compensation CVs, will affect CV 2 the Volts Start setting.
All motors generate voltage when the current is turned off. For the same reason the armature moves (opposing magnetic fields) when current flows in the coil with this coil in a magnetic field (permanent magnets). A coil spinning in a magnetic field, has current induced into it. This is how a generator works.
Back EMF is a variable amount of enhancement and value is determined by what is actually happening NOW - real time. This form of adjustment is called "closed loop" feedback. It does this by measuring the voltage generated by the motor, when the power is removed, and that is why it is called Back EMF. Since the current in a later "quiet" decoders is turned on and off at about 15,000 - 25,000 times a second - PWM, this happens very quickly and the PIC inside the decoder changes the "adjustment" to the base power signal to the motor, many times a second. This is a real time adjustment, happening all the time.
Thus by definition alone, Back EMF will be better than Dither, Torque Compensation etc as it is "real time" closed loop feedback, enabling continuous adjustment according to all the variables and in the case of our locos variable load.
When adjusting the decoders dither or torque compensation etc CVs, you will get varying results dependant on actual load at the time. In model railroad terms, when operating a train with a full load of wagons, shunting a few wagons and operating light engine, the loco start off results will be different. See also my NR loco experience about super slow running complaint.
For me, the Back EMF decoder, is all about getting the supreme low speed control with constant take offs at speed step 1 - every time and is not about "cruise control" going up and down hills, but the two go "hand in hand".
So that is the theory and these are the differences in Dither, Torque Compensation and Back EMF. I find the results from Back EMF decoder will be determined by the type and condition of the drive line used. This type of control is so good, that it can hide some mechanical problem like a binding mechanism etc, but so what. When the problem gets bad enough, the decoder will not be able to hide it any longer by its magic.
Price comparison between decoders, choice, recommendation and what's in my locos.
For me in Australia, decoders cost are: NCE D13SRs about $23, N14SRs about $40. TCSs T1s about $30 and M1s about $43. Lenz Silver about $55, and Lenz Gold, about $60 (Feb 07) and they are always getting cheaper.
Depending the available space and for a steam loco, if I didn't want to separate the loco and tender, I would fit a D13SR or a TCS T1. If I wanted to separate the loco and tender for a steam loco, I would mount a TCS M1 between the driving wheels on the loco. The Z14SR is just a little too thick and wide. If located inside the boiler it was ok.
Obviously the electronics involved with Back EMF and the European price, makes these Lenz Back EMF decoders more expensive. This above comparisons is not totally fair, as price has not been considered. I have ONLY made comparisons of the features. Not everybody will have the same priorities as me in regards the way a loco starts off. Some are happy at just using the decoder at the default value, some are happy to adjust just CV 2, some want to use Decoder Pro for a User defined speed table, etc. Everybody will have to make a choice on which decoder he/she fits to a loco.
After fitting decoders to my somewhat small fleet about 30 locos, when compared to others, and to many installations that I do for others, I have done the sums. The extra cost of say $20 to $30 for fitting the Lenz Back EMF decoder that will give the best possible performance and always start at speed step 1,is worth it. This $20 to $30 is bugger all in the big picture, when for me locos start off at $245 for diesels and $400 for steam locos. This is why I recommend back EMF decoders. As of Dec 07, TCS has back EMF decoders. I hope NCE will make one soon. I will retrofit my popular locos with the irregular starting.
With all this said, I recommend (Jan 08) for:
· Non sound installations a Back EMF decoder from Lenz, Loksound and now TCS (Nov 07).
· Sound for Steam: The Soundtraxx Tsunami. In my NSW locos I use the Light or K36.
· Sound for diesels: Loksound. Cheaper sound is the Soundtraxx DSD-101LC range of 4 diesel sounds/horn. A great Alco.
As my ultimate aim is to have sound in all of my locos, I am somewhat controlled by what the sound decoder manufactures provide in their decoders. QSI now Jan 08, have the Back EMF on and the Soundtraxx Tsunami provides limited Back EMF, providing great slow running. That's my steam fleet covered, now for the diesels. My present diesels all have Soundtraxx DSD-100LCs or 101LCs. These are noisy low PWM frequency that provides reasonably good low speed performance. I have a couple of Loksounds in my 44s.
Note: When consisting locos, the effect of Back EMF should be decreased as the loco speed increases, if this possible by adjusting CVs OR deactivate the Back EMF , otherwise there will be a jerking operation of the consist. I will add detail here later.
When adding a sound decoder to an existing loco that already has a DCC motor decoder, there are numerous options depending on the sound decoder purchased, and these are:
- Adding a Soundtraxx DSX sound only decoder. This setup will then be a DUAL decoder installation. See Programming Dual Decoder Installations.
- Removing the existing motor decoder and fit a combination motor and sound decoder the normal recommendation, but then you have a spare motor only decoder. You'll use it somewhere, Ill bet, so it wont go to waste.
- If you are using the more expensive Back EMF motor decoders from Lenz, ESU etc, you may want to keep this type of motor drive and fit a cheap sound decoder eg the Soundtraxx DSD100LC or DSD101LC or 090 series and use these combination decoder only for their sound only and another DUAL installation.
- If you have fitted a Soundtraxx decoder (prior to the Tsunamis), these may cause an annoying buzz/hum from the mechanism, even after adjusting CV 9 (range 0 255), that really spoils the operation of the loco. A solution to this annoying buzz/hum is adding a second decoder. See the Problem with Soundtraxx decoders
- The last couple of years (now April 07), has seen more brands of sound decoders, but before these came onto the market, most of the after market sound installations were using Soundtraxx decoders. With the Tsunami Steam and ESU Steam and Diesels combination motor and sound decoders, but these are nearly A$200 plus fitting BUT these later combination decoders come with quiet Back EMF motor control. Not everyone first starts of with the best and they use the cheaper available options only to find they are not happy with what they have fitted. The fix for this scenario is to fit a second motor decoder. And hence the DUAL Installation hassles come into play.
As with all evolving products, manufacturers are always providing better versions that generally are cheaper and smaller. It pays to sometimes wait, but when we finally take the plunge, we can only choose from what is available NOW and not what is promised to be released.
For my initial sound installation as of April 07, if I wanted to save a few dollars, try a noisy Soundtraxx decoder. See how to Test for whether the motor will buzz/hum prior to installing the decoder into a loco, below.
See Setting the Address for DUAL Installations and Programming DUAL decoder installations below for programming these installations.
The problems with Soundtraxx decoders prior to the Tsunami.
I have numerous DSD-100LCs in my loco fleet, but they have a few problems that Soundtraxx has addressed and are not in the new Tsunami decoders. At the moment (April 07) there are only Steam Tsunamis, no Diesels.
The previous price for the DSD-100LCs were in Australia, were $65. They have been replaced by the DSD-101LC range that has 3 versions, an Alco and two EMD 1st and 2nd Generations at A$94. An 8 ohm speaker has to be provided. Steam Tsunamis are A$165.
The specific Soundtraxx decoders for example the 090 range are a little more expensive but have the same problems as the DSD-100LC and 101LCs. These are:
· Low frequency motor control: This causes the motor to buzz/hum and the level of this buzz/hum varies depending on the type of mechanism. Some of my locos, this buzz/hum is tolerable but others, it is so annoying. No matter what value is programmed into CV 9, it does not reduce the buzz/hum significantly. The best value for me is 230 (the highest PWM motor drive frequency. For these locos, I have fitted a second decoder, just for the motor control for example the smaller NCE N14SR or the TCS T1 or M1. This fixes the headlight problem mentioned below and provides better motor control with CV 5 Volts Max and CV 6 Volts Mid, that Soundtraxx decoders don't provide. I am used to fitting two decoders, as I have a few DSX sound only decoders.
· Cannot operate LED headlights properly: LEDs do not stay off when selected off, they continually flash. I have fitted the Tony's fix for this if there is no second decoder. This is a little fiddly but works great.
· Do not remember headlight selection: Only fix is with second decoder.
· Most annoying sound reset on the slightest hint of dirty track: These can be reduced somewhat by cleaning and minimal lubrication of the mechanism. Too much oil causes intermittent electrical pick up. I use Peco Electrolube here. At the slightest hint of dirt I still get them and others have reported these irritating sound resets. Soundtraxx has recommended for the DSX an addition of a external capacitor that is easily soldered to the relevant pads but nothing for the DSD-100LCs. For my DSD-100LCs, I have added my own Stay Alive capacitor.
Early DCC decoders had the same low PWM frequency motor drive and quickly good the title of Noisy decoders, that these Soundtraxx decoders have. Modellers complained about the buzz/hum that these decoders caused. All later model DCC decoder have what is called by many as Quiet Drive etc. See my PWM article.
I have two DSD-100LC steam decoders, but I find the sound from these not appealing (to tinny) but the diesels are appealing enough and provide idle sounds that the steam ones don't. I set all my decoders to turn off the sounds automatically, after 3 minutes of inactivity. I will put one of these steam DSD-100LCs into Thomas. The little kids wont notice the buzz/hum.
Most of my future loco purchases will be coming RTR with SOUND from Eureka Models that will have a QSI chip included for an extra A$100. This saves me buying ANY decoder and speaker and saves heaps of time and money. They will have back EMF and will be quiet.
If fitting steam sound decoders to an existing loco for the first time then there would be no alternative, just fit the Tsunami at A$165 plus speaker. This will give great performance with a back EMF motor control the ultimate as far as I am concerned.
My preference for sound has changed from one that wanted idling and more prototypical correct sounds to one that is just giving each loco a sound identity, a diesel hum or a steam chuff. This enables a generic sound decoder, hence the DSD-100LC but I have to put up with noisy non back EMF motor control. This is something that each modeller will have to sort out.
But dollars do count. When there is a fleet of sound locos, the ultimate roster, I have got sound into MORE locos for the same expense. Running eventually a timetable operation on my layout, each loco will only be run for 15 to 30 minutes instead of for hours, so even the type layout operation can determine what type of sound.
Alternative decoders Apr 07:
Diesels: Loksound & maybe soon Soundtraxx Diesel Tsunamis.
Steam: Soundtraxx Tsunami and Loksound
Note: QSI Solutions (A part of Tony's Trains) has promised after market decoders for some time now, but still not here. QS Industries are making these sound decoders. Still not available Jan 08.
Sound Drop Outs or Sound Resets Why and How to Fix.
Sound "drop outs" or "sound resets" are caused by a momentary loss of power to the loco.
Locos prior to sound had these same pickup problems, but they "coasted" over the dirt and then picked up power again normally with possibly a slight hesitation in speed but mainly went unnoticed. With a sound loco, this same power interruption, you hear this interruption by the stopping and starting of the sound, a sound reset of the decoder. To reduce this:
- Clean the loco wheels and track. This reduces the resets but seem to come back very soon. A massive reduction in sound resets happened when I started to apply a little CRC 2-26 to the track after talking to local modeller that operate many sound locos. If you don't use some form of cleaner/deoxidizing agent like CRC 2-26, I suggest you try this. You'll be surprised with the results.
- Over lubrication can cause power pick up problems also. If the mechanism/bogies show signs of excessive lubrication, for example grease or oil everywhere, then dismantle the bogies etc and clean with a suitable cleaner. Apply only a drop of lubrication where necessary. I use Peco Electrolube for a good electrical path at axle box bearings on steam locos and axle keeper plates on diesels etc. Ordinary oil/grease, for example La Belle on gears etc.
- Fit extra pick ups on any wheel that can be easily done. This increases the pick up footprint. Brass and DJH kit steam locos with their half drivers and half tender pick ups are notorious for pick up problems. Also some steam locos have spilt chassis pickup like the 4-6-0 Austrains 36 with a tender that has 18 wheels on the track, that essentially has the same pick up as my 0-6-0 Tank engine. The 4 wheel pony truck and none of the tender wheels have pick ups.
- If the problem loco is permanently coupled to a second loco, then possibly wiring them both together to share the pick ups. This is really extending the pick up footprint to get trouble free operation.
- Add a body type pick up like a Tomar Shoes as I have done in 4-6-0 Bergs brass 30T tender steam loco where the fitting of extra pick ups is more difficult.
- As a last resort and only after exhausting all other avenues first add some form of Stay Alive Capacitor.
Two methods I have used are:
- Combination motor and sound decoders like the DSDs have to provide power for both motor and sound. To get positive results, I had to fit a 4,700 uF 16 volt electrolytic capacitor to some of my locos. See the Stay Alive article. The size of this capacitor is quite big, that may be a problem fitting it. Two Austrains 36s (including a Tsunami) and a 442, I was able to fit this 4,700 uF capacitor, but for a Proto 2000 GP 9, I could not. I used a second method.
- Use the DSD as a Sound Only decoder and then a much smaller 220 to 330 uF 16 Volt electrolytic capacitor is required. Of course you are going to have to add a SECOND decoder, just for the motor. Both the smaller capacitor and second decoder will require you to find extra room, but this may be easier than finding enough room for a large capacitor. This installation now makes the DSD similar to the DSX range of decoders that Soundtraxx had a modification for that showed how to add an external extra capacitor. This installation is now a DUAL decoder installation that can cause programming hassles. See above for adding sound to locos and below for the hassles and the 100 Ohm requirement for DSDs as sound decoders only.
Programming DUAL decoder installations.
When using the Program Track for programming, to read CV values, there can ONLY be ONE decoder installed in the loco. The options for these DUAL installations are:
- Install a switch or link etc, to isolate the decoders for CV reads.
- Instead of using the Program Track, use On the Main POM mode of programming.
- In the event that one decoder has to read, on installation, make one of the connections of the decoder, say the red wire, be easily removed by de-soldering so that the decoder that you want to read, is still connected.
Once DCC users get used to POM, there really is no requirement of the Program Track, except for an initial test for the correct installation that confirms that there is no faulty or incorrect wiring (shorts). Mine sits under my work bench.
Setting the Address for DUAL decoder installations - options.
When there are two decoders in one loco, you have to address both decoders by:
- Consisting the two decoders: Using NCE's Advanced Consisting. You will have to decide whether the function or motor decoder is the loco ID number on the cab and make up another address for the second decoder. I suggest for the sound decoder, make this the loco ID number. This will enable ending function commands to the sound decoder easier. Make the motor decoder the loco ID number PLUS or MINUS 1 for an easy way to remember the decoder.
- Advantage: Programming each decoder is easy using On the Main by either pressing ENTER or typing the loco ID number when prompted. Decoders can be programmed when they are in a consist, without breaking up the consist.
- Disadvantage: 1. You have to remember the other decoder number. 2. There is more packet information on the track bus than when using the same address for each decoder. This should not matter for all but the largest layouts with plenty of locos. 3. When the loco decoders are consisted together using this method, the loco cannot be operated on another layout, without dismantling the consist and rebuilding it on the new layout.
- Using the SAME address: Each decoder is set up to have the same address. To allow individual programming of each of the decoders, set them up with the SAME Long Address and different Short Addresses.
- For operating the two decoders, CV 29 will be programmed to 34 so each decoder responds to the long address.
- To individually program a decoder, while operating on the Long Address using POM program CV 29 to 2.
- This will program BOTH decoders to respond to its own unique short address.
- Now program the individual sound or motor decoder.
- When done with programming, program EACH decoders CV 29 to 34.
- Now BOTH decoders will respond to the Long Address again.
- See below for a more detailed procedure for this.
- Advantage: 1. Operating address is the same. Can be taken to another and operated as is. 3. There is less packet traffic.
- Disadvantage: Slightly difficult programming sequence and more time consuming.
I have used both methods.
Using the Consisting method is easier and especially more practical if the loco is only used on one layout. There are other consisting methods apart from Advanced, but that is NCE's default option. You can choose.
Note: Having all your locos with the SAME Short Address (mine as the default 3), will NOT cause all locos to be programmed when using on the Main POM when the locos are being operated on their Long Addresses.
For my DUAL installs, I use the SAME ADDRESS option and use POM programming. Yes you might say there are some conflicting CVs, that when programmed this way, both will be programmed, so what. I have only ever come across ONE time that this was a problem and I cannot remember it now.
Individual decoder programming when using Consisting option.
Self explanatory as each decoder is treated as a separate installation with two different addresses.
Individual decoder programming when using the SAME Address option.
Prior to decoders coming with the Decoder Lock feature, some installations that needed 2 decoders eg. a loco with a Soundtraxx DSX (sound only decoder) and a motor decoder, programming of the decoders could have been a little difficult due to the clashing of decoder CVs. These installations prevented the reading of CVs on the Program Track, but they could be programmed using POM.
To program ONE of the decoders of a DUAL decoder installation with a CV value, that you don't want to program the other decoder with, due to a conflict etc, do the following:
- Prior to installing the decoders, using a Decoder tester or test leads etc, connect one decoder a time to the Program Track.
- Using the 1=STD option, program each decoder with a DIFFERENT Short address and the SAME Long address.
- On completion if done correctly, the two decoders will respond to the LONG address (CV 29 will be 34 or 38). Finalise the installation and now the loco and sounds will operate using the Long Address.
- To program a CV in ONLY ONE decoder, you'll use POM Ops Mode programming.
- While operating the loco on the Long Address, select POM
- Select 2 to program CVs..
- Program CV 29 to 2.
- This programs each decoder to respond to their appropriate (different) SHORT address.
- Operate the decoder that needs to be programmed, on its SHORT address. Program the required CVs using POM. Only the decoder with the appropriate address gets programmed, while the other decoder, nothing gets programmed.
- When finished, while operating each decoder on its SHORT address, using POM, program BOTH decoders CV 29 to 34, or 50 depending whether speed tables are used.
- Now each decoder responds to the SAME address again, ready to operate motor and sound together, with only the one decoders CV/s being programmed.
For Joe Fugate's programming method of his BLI BlueLine diesels, see:
http://model-trains-video.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?150.0
What happens when reading CVs on the Program Track?
During the read sequence of each CV, the Command Station sends a command to pulse the motor or speaker. The current flowing from the Command Station during this pulsing is interpreted by the Command Station as the value for the requested CV.
With two decoders, both would be pulsing its own motor or speaker, causing more current to flow from the Command Station providing an incorrect value. So any read of dual decoder installations, the value would be wrong and certainly would not represent the value of ANY of the two CVs that were being read.
Using the DSD for Sound ONLY To read CVs without the motor connected.
When the DSD is used as a Sound Only decoder, there is no load (motor) connected to the decoders Orange and Grey (motor) wires. When CVs need to be read on the Program Track, the Command Station instructs the decoder to pulse the motor (load) and it is the current of these pulses that the Command Station is able to display a CV value. Said another way, no motor no pulses no current = no CV value.
So that there are pulses for the Command Station to display (read) CV values, you have to connect a 100 Ohm resistor, to the Orange and Grey wire. This now provides a load, similar to the motor to provide a CV read value.
Under normal operation, this 100 ohm 1 watt resistor can get quite warm, depending on what speed and for how long the loco is operated, this may create heat problem.
Current flowing through the resistor depends upon the voltage applied to the resistor and under normal circumstances, proportional to the speed of the loco. The voltage from the decoder increases as the speed of the loco increases. Two scenarios:
- Low Speed: Approximately 5 to 8 Volts is applied to the resistor that will cause a current to flow through the resistor of between 50 to 80 mAs (.05 to .08 Amps). Power and thus heat generated is 0.64 watts
- High Speed: Approximately 10 to 12 Volts applied to the resistor and a current of 100 to 120 mAs (.10 to .12 Amps). Power and thus heat generated is 1.44 watts. A 1 watt resistor will create a lot of heat and will burn out with constant high speed running typical of a passenger train. Use a two 200 ohm 1 watt resistors in parallel or even a 5 watt if possible.
An alternative is to program the decoder with its own Zero Voltage Speed table by programming the DSDs CVs 67 to 94 with values of 0 and set CV 29 to 50 to acknowledge an EXTERNAL Speed Table and 4 digit addressing. Easier if done in Decoder Pro, but not impossible if done manually. With this external Speed Table set, the output voltage will be ZERO and no heating of the resistor while running but 100 ohms there, while pulsing the resistor for the CV read. So now you can use a .25 watt resistor without becoming hot.
In the end, to keep this discussion simple, use two 100 ohm 1 watt resistors connected in parallel instead of the motor to enable CV reading. If running at high speed regularly, please check how hot the resistor gets before fitting the loco body. It will get hotter with the body on.
This has become a little complicated, but there has to be a work around when using the decoder differently than how it was designed to work.
Test for whether the motor will buzz/hum
One problem when going to sound is that any mechanism noise can detract from the sounds from the decoder, so this now may become a problem. This will determine what mechanisms can have sound. For my local model mechanisms, K & M mechanisms have their own on board noise generators (noisy gear train) and precludes this type of mechanism from being used with a sound decoder.
Early DCC decoder (prior to about 2002) and all of the Soundtraxx range prior to the Tsunami, the PWM frequency of the motor control was about 2,000 Hz that in a lot of cased the motor to buzz/hum. Decoders using PWM frequencies in this range became known as noisy motor control.
To save on the disappointment of finding that a loco makes too much noise (buzz/hum), after spending a few hours installing it, when using any NOISY earlier type of decoder carry out this test:
- Connect, hot wire the NOISY decoders Red and Black wires to the Main.
- Connect the decoders Orange and Gray wires to a piece of test track. A couple of lengths of Flexitrack so you can get it up to some reasonable speed will be suitable here. You could even connect these two Orange and Gray wires to your layout and remove all your DCC locos. You make your own arrangements here. You get the idea.
- The output of the decoder is DC so it now can operate any of you non converted DC locos.
- Place your desired DC test loco on the track.
- Select Address 3 if the decoder is new out of the box or the address that the decoder was.
- Operate the loco.
- Now you can see if your 47, 44, brass loco etc makes too much noise and then you can decide whether to install this type of decoder. Too much noise, go with one of the Quiet decoders.
Setting up and operating the Soundtraxx Tsunami on DC.
Since sound has become popular with the introduction of RTR models, many users want to add sound to their existing loco fleet.
The QSI locos operate on DC with a lag at start up, as you wind up the knob of the DC power pack to about 5 to 7 volts, enough volts to power the electronics in the decoder. At this point, the QSI now makes idle sound but does not move. Increasing the throttle further, now the loco moves.
Operating the direction switch while the loco is moving, sounds the horn or whistle.
DC operation of the Soundtraxx Tsunami is similar to above, except there is no capability to blow the horn/whistle. The Tsunami only provides CHUFFS and as such, will be only a basic sound decoder and no extra sounds.
To ENABLE DC operation of the Tsunami, it has to be SETUP on a DCC layout really silly but until they (Soundtraxx) change the default settings for the Tsunami, this is how it works.
One of the local modellers here, James McInerney setup his Tsunami equipped Austrains C36 to run on DC, by the programming the below CVs including some that were NOT mentioned in the Steam Users Guide. The CVs programmed were:
CV 3 to a minimum, say 10.
CV 4 to a minimum, say 5.
CV
12 Power Source Conversion = 1
CV 13 Analogue Function Enable = 1
CV 14 Analogue Function Enable 2 = 1
CV
29 to 38 DC ON, 4 digit addressing normal direction and Internal Speed Tables.
CV 63 Analogue Mode Motor Start Voltage = 10
CV 64 Analogue Mode Max Motor Voltage = 120
Note: After operating any loco on DC by enabling DC operation by
programming CV 29, always set DC to OFF, when operating on a DCC layout.
Note 2: Pulse type Power Packs may also cause the Tsunami not to move. Select the pulses to OFF, if the power pack has this feature or use one of the old type rheostat controllers (H & M etc).
Soundtraxx Tsunamis Playable Whistle with NCE.
You have to configure the Tsunami and the Cab to operate the Playable Whistle. This is done by:
Programming the Tsunamis CV47 with 127 using either form of programming.
On the Procab/Power Cab, press PROG/ESC then 6 to access SET CAB PARAMS menu.
Press ENTER and scroll through to ANALOG HORN CHANNEL by pressing ENTER Twice.
Type 127 then ENTER (matches the analog channel of the Tsunami).
Press ENTER to scroll through to ANALOG BIAS
Set to 8 if it's not set already.
Play the whistle by holding the HORN button while using the thumbwheel on your cab to play the whistle.
Horn/Whistle Volume LOW especially after having enabling the Payable Whistle (above).
After enabling the Tsunami Playable Whistle as above, I noticed the normal whistle was quieter than previously. I set all my values from above back to normal. 0 in the Cab Parameters Analogue Horn setting that I had set to 127 for the Payable Whistle and the normal whistle was back to its normal high volume.
Recently while installing a 16 MB Loksound V3.5 decoder and configuring the decoder I had a problem with the volume of the horn. Operating the horn using the F2 the horn was loud but when I operated the horn using the dedicated HORN/WHISTLE button, the horn was significantly quieter. I discussed with one of my group members if he could load the real NSW 44 horn recording we had into the Loksound. On completion, we tested the various horns that were set up using F1 to F4 using the Lokprogrammer and all horns were loud Operated the same with a Procab until I operated the horn using the HORN/WHISTLE button. This resulted in a markedly softer horn. An hours mucking around and reprogramming and my mate saying, could it be a problem with the NCE. No! I said, until I remembered the Playable Horn issue I had, from 9 months ago. Set the Cab Parameters Analogue Horn to 0 but it didn't take until I cycled the power to the Power Pro. Now all horns are loud.
If not using the Playable Horn feature, set the Cab Parameters Analogue Horn to 0 and cycle the power.
As the prototype MUed two or more locos together for certain operations, the same can be done in DCC. This procedure is called consisting. There a various ways to consist locos together, three are discussed below:
Address Consisting where you program each loco with the same address, but obviously one or more of the locos would have a different address than what was the loco I.D. number. The advantage here is that the system only has to send the one packet and all the engines in consist would respond due they all had the same address. Simple enough to do, but if the consisted locos had to be broken up and moved individually, they would have required re-programming that may need the loco returned to the Program Track a five fingered shunt would be in order here.
Advantage packets are kept to a minimum. Disadvantage - Cannot isolate locos for individual control.
Standard or Universal Consisting There is no decoder programming required with this form. The Command Station keeps track of which locos are consisted together. Individual locos are still addressed with their unique address. The disadvantage of this form of consisting is that each one of the locos is sent its own individual packet for each loco instruction. Lots of extra packets being sent compared to address consisting. On a large layout with a few operators, this could cause packet overload that would start to slow down the system and possibly causing problems. Also the consist is not portable, so taking it to another layout, you would have to rebuild the consist. CVP and Digitrax use this as their primary form of consisting.
Advantage can have individual loco operation. Disadvantage Lots of packets required and no portability.
Advanced Consisting Most later (07 and on) types of decoders, on top of responding to the 2 or 4 digit address, can respond to a third address, a 2 digit (1 to 127) number that is programmed into CV 19. CV 19 and is known as the Consist Address CV.
Locos set up in a consist using the Advanced Consist method (a non zero value in CV 19), will now ignore the normal 2 or 4 digit address and respond to packets that have the consist address as the address. This only applies to motor commands. A consisted unit still responds to function commands at it's own address. The Command Station keeps track of what loco have consists but only sends instruction with the consist number.
Advance consist are portable. NCE and Lenz use this form of consisting as their primary method. Additional CVs 21 and 22 are used in advanced consisting, to send functions to the consist. So two sound locos could be operating but you can disable the horn in the rear loco using CV 22.All other function can be set for individual locos in the advanced consist
Advantage Individual operation by writing 0 to CV 19 to all locos. It is portable, use the consist number to address all locos, plus function selection in CV 21 ad 22. Disadvantages uses 2 digit addresses, that may conflict with already used 2 digit locos, secondly not all decoders support it.
Double ended loco addressing of Consists NCEs method of Consisting. (Dec 2004 EPROM)
NCE uses Advanced Consists by default. Press ENTER = ADV at Setup. The Command Station programs CV 19 of all locos that are used in the Consist with one number between 1 and 127, starting from the highest available one. If you are using two digit numbers for your locos, these WILL clash with the Consist numbers, so this is why NCE starts with 127 and then 126 and so on. This will reduce the likelihood of clashing with short address locos.
You don't have to remember the consist number, not even when addressing the Consist. No more lists to record details etc. It is only used by the Command Station where all locos addresses in the Consist are attached at SETUP on the Consist Menu.
The Double Ended loco addressing feature (its fantastic), allows you to address the Consist by the actual loco numbers. With two or three locos standing there in a Consist, ready to be used Which is the forward one? Simple, select the loco that is the forward one, in the direction that you want to go. This could be either, the right or left loco, the front or the rear one in the setup, it does not matter. The Procab now displays CON selected loco no. and FWD. Changing the direction of the Consist, the Procab shows CON selected loco no. and REV. Select the other end loco and when it is going in its forward direction, the Procab shows FWD etc. No more confusion with loco numbers and the displayed direction.
As usual, when setting up and clearing (making or breaking) Consists, follow the prompts at the Consist Menu.
Clearing (kill) a Consist, no consist address no. required. Type in the front or rear loco number and ENTER. The C/S programs all locos CV 19s to 0. Its that easy.
What to do if ONE loco did not operate (run), after the Consist was “KILLED”
When you “kill” a consist, the Command is instructed to “clear” the locos assigned to that particular “Consist Address” and all the associated consisted loco have CV 19 programmed to “0” (while in a consist, this value was the Consist Address numeric value).
Occasionally this command to program CV 19 to “0”, is not received by a loco due dirty track/bad contact etc, resulting in “that” loco not moving, when asked to (if it is a sound loco, the sound works, but no movement).
To get the loco back to normal “singular” operation, it’s easy:
- When you have selected the loco and it doesn’t move.
- Press the PROG/ESC button once.
- Press ENTER on the “selected loco” number prompt.
- You are now ready to POM program the “non moving” loco.
- Program CV 19 to “0”.
- Press “ENTER”
- Now the non moving loco’s address shows in the display and the loco will move.
No need to return the loco to the Program Track and do a reset..
Speed Matching for Consisting.
When locos are consisted (Mued) together, they will obviously both travel at the same speed, but their motors may be running at different speeds. A slight difference of speed between the two locos is tolerable, but if each loco has a totally different speed characteristics, that are determined by the motor, mechanisms, gearing and speed tables, this could lead to one loco pulling or pushing the other loco around the layout.
If these locos are going to be consisted together for permanent consist then their speed characteristics can be matched by simply adjusting CVs 2, 5 and 6. Soundtraxx does not CVs 5 and 6 and QSI does not support CV 6.
If different brand decoders are being used then the difference between the default Speed Tables can be quite significant compounding with the differences in mechanism etc, the locos may be fighting against each other, making smooth running of the consist, impossible. See Consisting with different brand decoders below.
For a basic procedure, set the locos as follows:
1. Warm up the locos for a few minutes prior to Speed Matching.
2. Determine which loco is going to be the Master
3. Set the Start Voltage of the master if not already set.
4. Set the Start voltage for the second loco to give similar Start Up.
5. Setup a consist.
6. DONT connect the locos, keep them about 6 to 12 inches apart.
7. Operate the Consist both locos will move.
8. Select POM (PROG/ESC once).
9. When prompted for an address, type in the second locos address (not the Master).
10. Now adjust the second locos CV 5 - Volts Max so that its top speed is similar to the first loco
11. Run the locos at mid speed - Speed Step 14 out of 28 or 64 out of 128.
12. Adjust CV 6 - Volts Med to give the second loco similar speed as the first.
13. This does not have to be accurate, 5 minutes will give you close enough speed match suitable for consisting.
Setting up Headlights and Functions when Consisting.
The default factory programming for NCE decoders has all of the functions enabled for each locomotive operating in a consist as setup in CV 21 and CV 22. From the NCE Manual:
CV21 Functions active in consist mode. Bit 0 controls F1, Bit 1 controls F2, Bit 2 controls F3, etc.
A bit value of 1 equals function can be controlled at consist address, a bit value of 0 equals NO consist control
CV22 Functions active in consist mode. Bits 0, 1 control FLF and FLR respectively each bit 1=function can be controlled at consist address, 0 = no consist control
Using a consist example of three locos, you need to set up CV22 for the three locomotives so the headlights respond as you want them to.
A typical lighting effect that is suitable for my NSWGR and many others is Auto reversible dimmable headlights. So with three locos with the front and middle locos facing forward and the rear loco facing backwards (reversed) I want:
· Front Loco only the front light to illuminate (never the rear).
· Middle Loco NO lights to operate.
· Rear Loco As it is placed backwards in the consist I want only the FORWARD light to operate.
So in essence, out of 6 lights I only want 2 to operate when in a consist. When these locos are operated individually I need all 6 of the lights to work. So this is what setting up the headlights can do when in a consist. Similar operation can be reproduced for other functions. If these locos have sound all of them, then only the horn should be allowed to operate in the front loco. It can be set up this way.
Back to the headlights to get my desired effect:
- LEAD Loco Set CV 22 to 1 so that only the front light works.
- MIDDLE Loco Set CV 22 to 0 so NO lights illuminate.
- REAR Loco Set CV 22 to 1 so that only the FRONT light works.
This works for all brands of decoders as CV 21 and CV 22 are set aside for this Functions to operate in a Consist.
Consisting especially with different decoders eg. NCE, Lenz and ESU Loksound decoders.
Consisting locos is nothing new but with all the improvements and features in decoder these days, these features can make consisting more troublesome depending on the features offered. Back EMF, delays in take off and differences in momentum can effect loco performances, even to the point of severe jerking.
A slight miss match in loco speeds is tolerable.
A Back EMF decoder will give you superb starting at Speed Step 1 every time and constant speed running, due to the decoder measuring the voltage between the PWM pulses when the current is zero. This Back EMF voltage when compared to what the decoder should see will either increase or decrease the voltage to the motor to maintain a constant speed. This happens many times a second.
This feature is really fantastic for single engine running, but when locos are consisted together and one is a Back EMF decoder, this causes a running problem depending on what type of decoder, how much the Back EMF effect is etc due the is another motor that is causing a variable load on the motor using a back EMF decoder. This may result in bucking or jerking of the consist and in some cases, cause a very labouring sound.
Momentum settings, (CVs 3 and 4) and the default speed tables (CVs 2, 5 and 6) can increase or decrease this bucking.
Speed Matching the decoders will reduce this effect but if the problem continues, then if the Back EMF effect can be reduced or even turned off, then locos will perform normally but without the added benefit of Back EMF.
Loksound decoders with their delay on start up will stay stationary while other decoders try to start off depending on the amount of momentum set in one or both decoders.
Consisting with these Back EMF decoders may require the operators of these decoders to experiment with CVs to get the best performance when starting.
An example of the problem discussed above was clearly evident when I visited a layout where the owner bought a twin pack of Austrains CLPs, a new release here in Australia that operated together on the prototype.
One loco was fitted with a Loksound sound decoder and the other was fitted with an NCE D14SR. The normal delay of the Loksound really caused a noisy take off. A miss match of the speed tables by the owner probably using the default settings for both decoders caused irregular running of the consist.
A quick fix for this problem, is to adjust the 3 step speed table CV 2, 5 and 6. Looking at the default settings both decoders shows a potential problem.
Default settings for each decoders CV 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 are as follows:
· Loksound 2 = 3 (0-255), 3 = 8 (0-64), 4 = 6 (0-64), 5 = 64 (0-64) and 6 = 22 (0-64)
· NCE 2 = 0 (0-255), 3 = 0 (0-255), 4 = 0 (0-255), 5 = 0 (0-255) really gives a value of 255 and 6 = 0 (0-255) but really gives a value of 127.
· Lenz Back EMF 2 = 0 (0-255), 3 = 6 (0-255), 4 = 5 (0-255), 5 = 255 (0-255) and 6 = 48 (0-255).
The main problem of consisting locos with different brand decoders are the default Speed Curves that provide anything but a speed match. Along with Back EMF and delays in starting like with the Loksound, make consisting difficult, unless there are a few programming adjustments.
Different manufacturers have their different ways of setting up a decoder with default settings. As can be seen from the figures above and the diagram below, they can be very different.
- The NCE has a flat default speed curve, with the MID (CV 6) voltage of 50% of the maximum.
- The Loksound has a MID (CV 6) voltage of 34% of the maximum.
- Lenz Back EMF has MID (CV 6) voltage of 19% of the maximum.
Using the default speed
tables of the decoders as shown in the diagram on the left, there will
certainly be a miss match in speed. This is compounded by using decoders with
Back EMF, in this case the Lenz and Loksound that gives a poor performance as
witnessed. With the NCE (non back EMF decoder) equipped loco, usually set up by
programming a value into CV 2 to get the loco to move off close to speed step
1, this makes the difference even greater.
Depending on what type of speed curve (table) you want, one like the slower Lenz or the faster Loksound, will determine which one you adjust. I adjusted the Lenz to the Loksound.
To adjust the NCE to the Loksound, adjust CV 6 to 84 (33% of 255) or to the Lenz adjust CV 6 to 49 (19 % of 255). This would vary if you have set CV 2 (refer thin red line) in the NCE to somewhere in the 10 to 50 range, to get better starting.
I have installed a Loksound and a Lenz Back EMF decoders into these identical mechanisms and got a MUCH better speed match that resulted in a far better running performance by just adjusting the Lenz's CV 6 to a value of 86 (34% of 255). I tinkered the Lenz using POM and consisting the two locos uncoupled 6 inches apart and adjusted CV 6 to 100. This gave a pretty good speed match over the whole range except for the initial start up. The Loksound does not move for 5 to 7 seconds but after that, they both work great but made easier in that the mechanisms were identical with the same gearing etc.
So when consisting locos, depending on the type of decoder and the type of mechanisms, will determine if and how much experimenting with CVs has to be done. The above simple fix was without Decoder Pro that many don't have connected to their locos.
Some of the adjustments you can make are:
· Adjust CV 2 to give similar start up value.
· Adjust CV 5 to give similar top speeds. Soundtraxx decoders dont support CV 5.
· Adjust CV 6 of the decoders to give similar speed curves. This can be a flat or 2 rate speed curve. Soundtraxx and QSI sound decoders DONT support CV 6. You will have to select a speed table with either of these decoders then match other decoders to them.
· Reduce the Back EMF effect or even turn off the Back EMF feature altogether.
· Adjust the momentum.
Speed Matching two locos can be easily achieved by:
- Consisting the two locos.
- Keep the locos separated by about 6 inches (15 cms)
- Operate the consist.
- Using POM
- When prompted, enter the address of the loco you want to adjust.
- Program the CVs from the above list starting with CV 2 then 5 then 6 etc, until the locos perform similarly.
Locos with the same mechanisms, that are commonly consisted permanently, that have different decoders in this case, one has sound and one doesn't, a quick adjustment of CV 6 will dramatically improve the speed match. Different mechanism will make speed matching more difficult. Using Decoder Pro does make this easier. See how you go.
As has been discussed, there are many variables in Speed Matching, but a close enough adjustment will do in many cases, that can be easily made by programming a few CVs. The fact that one loco pushes or pulls a little harder than the other, wont matter. It is just when there is a large difference in speed, that there will be running problems. Back EMF can also cause a larger difference
Bankers on my Main North Accurate Speed Matching.
While in many instances on my prototype during the mid 60s, locos were consisted together but many times bank engine were used that were connected to the rear of the train to assist the train up the steep 1 in 40 grades across the Liverpool Ranges on my layout at Ardglen. A similar steam engine in some cases but in most cases a different type of loco was used as bankers. On the layout, this will require different operators thus the locos will NOT be consisted. For the operator of the rear engine, it will be a rea task to keep the train in tact.
The addition of temporary consisting and banking over the Range was one reason I chose NCE DCC for my layout and the fact that this extra operational procedure has to be done, was one reason I chose this area. I am hoping I can achieve what I set out to do, without too many accidents.
Building up consists on the fly will be required and operating locos at the same speed will be essential. Accurate Speed Matching will be the only way to make this possible as I don't want to many locos making that trip to the floor.
What I need is all of my locos to go at 10 scale miles per hour at say speed step 30 out of 128. This will enable make the operators life a little easier as they know that basically at the same speed setting and 10 miles an hour up a steep grade for a steam engine sounds good to me. This will be a slightly more difficult task as the two locos ARE connected together by all the wagons/coaches in the train, but one loco on the front and one on the back, while operating on steep 1 in 40 grades around 24 inch radius curves on my Main North without pulling or pushing the wagons/coaches to the floor.
If I could hold the jaws open on a Kadee, this would ensure that the front loco did not pull on the rear loco via the wagons, but the operator has to juggle the slack in the wagons. An extra operating problem that I have, is that during the mid 60s on my Main North layout trains had many 4 wheelers that are even easier to pull off the track. It is going to be tough to find operators of the bankers .
I will have to come up with a procedure with doing this, but it is all that much harder when there are many combinations of decoder and some Back EMF ones included. Will report on my progress later.
Power Cab Software Version No.
This is the version of the PROCAB software installed in the Power Cab and not the software version of the Power Cab. 5 seconds later, the screen shows the version number of the installed POWER CAB software as:
- Initial shipping of the Power Cab had version 1.1 which had NO Power Cab reset feature.
- Shipping since about Mar 07 is version 1.28 that has the Power Cab reset feature.
To replace the EPROM, open up the Power Cab and replace the long chip on the R/H side.
NOTE: As Mark Gurries has explained, on plugging in or supplying power to the Power Cab, the Power Cab has to determine which one of the two modes it should operate at as a Power Cab or as a Procab, these are different. If it sees voltage at its RJ12 connector, it starts up as a Procab, with no voltage, it starts up as a Power Cab.
How NCEs Momentum Button works.
If you want to change the momentum of a loco from one that has a lot of momentum for mainline running with long heavy trains to one that has small amount or no momentum, typical of a switcher moving around a few wagons. To change the momentum, CVs 3 and 4 previously required a 13 button presses routine (for single figure CV values), has been condensed to 2. How good is that! What a great feature, NCE, if you like using momentum. I might start using it, now the momentum button has been enabled with the latest EPROM.
Pressing the MOMENTUM button, the C/S will program CV 4 with HALF the value that it programs into CV 3. Essentially the braking delay is half of what the accelerating delay is. This default half value slows down the loco quicker than when it accelerates it. You can set up the Momentum button multiplier in the SET CMD STA menu.
Cab04 throttles can have this great 2 button presses MOMENTUM feature, by programming the OPTION to be a Momentum button to program momentum into the operating loco by pressing Option and then a value between 0 and 9, by:
- Hold down the SELECT LOCO button while plugging the Cab04 in.
- The Cab04 is now in its Internal Setup program, indicated by flashing Status LED.
- Press 4 for Option button Setup.
- Type in 111 for Momentum (from page 5 of the Cab04E Manual below).
- Press ENTER
The Option button now acts as a Momentum Button. To change the operating locos momentum CVs (CV 3 and CV 4), press OPTION then the amount of momentum desired 0 for NO momentum and 9 for maximum momentum. For more details click here for the Cab04E manual.
Irregular operation of the Cab04Es especially in Yard mode.
Joe Fugate reported (Aug 07), he was having trouble with his Cab04ERs. They would work on one side with speed and functions but the other side would only provide speed commands and NO functions, including NO Yard mode. After consulting with NCE and they said to ensure the Radio Fix is set to ON, since that is to fix a yard mode throttle bug.
In Joes words, I finally decided both sides must be completely different throttles so I went by the book to deliberately and carefully set the cab addresses, yard mode, and ballistic tracking for each side. The end result is everything now works! But it does appear if you're not careful on the new firmware release, you can get one of the two sides of your Cab04e in an incomplete state and the clue you've done that is only the function keys work, but not the throttle.
The fix appears to be to set the toggle to a given side and then to carefully and deliberately set each of the settings: cab address, yard/normal mode, and ballistic tracking for *each side*. Once I did that, everything works good. For more details click here for the Cab04E manual.
Cab04s Difficulty in acquiring a Loco.
Make sure there are NO other throttles being used with the SAME address. This may be a little hard to know what the Cab04 address is. It is easier to unplug or turn off ALL the other throttles and get the problem Cab04 operating right and then programming it with address that NO other throttle has. Remember the Cab04ER has two addresses.
When trying to acquire a loco with a Cab04P/E, the facia mounted LED MUST illuminate on both tethered and radio operation, after the SELECT LOCO button has been pressed. If the LED flashes once and then stays extinguished, the Cab04 will NOT acquire a loco. You may have to pause a little, after pressing the SELECT LOCO button.
A gremlin has got into the "electronics". Reset the Cab04 to it's default values by:
Holding down the SELECT LOCO button.
Plug the Cab04 into the Cab Bus
The facia LED now flashes fast.
Press "1"
The LED flashes slower.
Press "0"
Press ENTER.
The Cab04s will now be free of the gremlins and it's address will be "5" if it is a Cab04P
For the Cab04E, this reset has to be done TWICE, once with the "switch" in the L/H position and then again with the switch in the R/H position and their default addresses will be "5" and "6" respectively.
If this "reset" procedure doesn't "clear" the problem (LED NOT staying illuminated after pressing the SELECT LOCO button), remove the throttle from the Cab Bus and remove any batteries installed for radio Cab04s, and leave overnight to discharge the "electronics". Try again later.
I have had this problem with many of the Cab04s that have come to my work bench.
Other strange problems that I have encountered in the last few months, like the Procab's display showing two lines of black boxes after soldering in a new LED to the Procab, a Procab display showing a screen full of strange characters when turning the throttle on and some others, were fixed by just removing the batteries and any power to the unit, mostly radio units.
Cab Addresses for ALL NCE Throttles.
Just as a loco needs a unique address for independent control, so do all the throttles (Cabs). If you dont change the address of a second or subsequent throttle, from the default address, you may see weird running or un-commanded or loss of control of your trains. Addresses are:
- ANY Plugged In Throttle - 1 to 63.
- Default addresses are Procab - 2 and Cab04/05 - 5.
- Note: Any Radio throttles when plugged in, can be in this 1 to 63 range, but for radio operation, see below.
- Radio Procabs 2 to 17. Note: Radio Addresses 1 and 18 are reserved.
- Due to memory restrictions of the RB02, only cab addresses 2 to 17 have the capability of transmitting the display information. A Procab can be used in the Engineer Cab04/05s range of 19 to 49, but no display info.
- Do NOT use address 8 that has been confirmed to have runaways.
- Radio Cab04/05s 19 to 49.
- Using cab address #49 (Dec 06) will cause the system to lock up. Only fixed with an EPROM Upgrade.
- Power Cab ONLY address 2. Optional extra Procab or Cab04 MUST be set at 3
- Using the optional SB3, addresses must be in the range of 2 to 5.
For radio operation in the Set up Command Station setting for the Radio Fix is ENABLED by selecting 1.
To change a throttle address, while holding down the SELECT LOCO button, plug in the throttle. Press 1, type in the new address, then press ENTER.
If for some reason you suspect a problem with your throttle , just like decoders, the system etc, you can reset your throttle that will return all the programmable settings, to the factory default values by programming the address of the throttle to 0. The address of the Procab will be 2 and for Cab04/5s will be 5. Important: Reassign a new address if using more than one throttle to this reset throttle.
What happens if the Command Station Battery is flat.